fdegrove said:
Yeah. Seems to just be a twist on the spec wars. Instead of touting 0.000001% THD, they're touting 99.999999% pure copper or silver.
What do you mean "natrually microdiodes do exist"? Exist where? In copper wire typically used for audio cables? Again, I've seen no evidence of their existence. Where has the existence of these microdiodes in copper wire been demonstrated?
Back up. I still haven't seen any evidence of their existence. Let's clear that one up first.
It must be pretty new because a Google on "interdielectric barrier" and came up with nothing. There some other terminology this thing that's not really new is known as?
Mmmmm. 'Bout all I recall our discussing was surface oxide on copper wires.
What's a way of neutralizing static electricity caused by current through the wire/insulator interface? Interdielectric barrier?
What technique? C'mon, Frank, you know I hate when you get so vague.
Sorry, you've lost me again.
Adding an intermediate layer of what?
Why not? It's an insulator. Why wouldn't a static charge build up on the enamel on magnet wire just like it could build up on any other insulator?
Don't see any references which have anything to do with copper wire that aren't high-end cable manufacturers.
Great. I'd love a something that makes for great bedtime reading on a sleeples snight. But I don't see anything on the web that seems to fit in with wires. How 'bout a URL or two?
Sure. But sometimes attention paid to even the most seemingly trivial detail ends up being nothing more than a psychological disorder. 🙂
se
Hi,
Yes, with the wrong set of of arguments it seems...Nothing I can do about that.
Did I mention copper wire? No, I did not.
Your conclusion, not mine...
Mind you, with heavily contaminated copper wires it would not be impossible to imagine. Get it?
There you go. The power of suggestion I suppose.
While I could back this up easily, no mention of copper wire there, Steve.
Again, I wouldn't exclude copper as a carrier per se; just rather unlikely.
Google has a build in preference for commercial items in case you haven't noticed yet.
Oh yes, another mistake of yours if I can say so.
You first have to understand what's going on but a close look at the Walt Jung/ Rich Marsh papers on caps might give some idea.
Oh, they're not finished papers as far as I can see. Expect some controversy on the use of plastics in the next ten years in audio and other fields....................
Vague? Qui? Moi? C'mon, Steve. It's a dead giveaway.
Of some semi-conducting material...Am I teaching kindergarten?
And all insulators behave the same? Think again, please.
I'd almost say paper, scissors...LOL.
No, neither do I. Reading the material carefully should however give you some idea on as to why they mentioned it in the first place.
Because it's only the hig-end manufactures that linked it that way to their blurb, silly.
It's not that it isn't there, it's just you having a problem with how it's linked....
Haven't tried yet, have you?😀
Cheers,😉
Yes, with the wrong set of of arguments it seems...Nothing I can do about that.
Did I mention copper wire? No, I did not.
Your conclusion, not mine...
Mind you, with heavily contaminated copper wires it would not be impossible to imagine. Get it?
There you go. The power of suggestion I suppose.
While I could back this up easily, no mention of copper wire there, Steve.
Again, I wouldn't exclude copper as a carrier per se; just rather unlikely.
Google has a build in preference for commercial items in case you haven't noticed yet.
Oh yes, another mistake of yours if I can say so.
You first have to understand what's going on but a close look at the Walt Jung/ Rich Marsh papers on caps might give some idea.
Oh, they're not finished papers as far as I can see. Expect some controversy on the use of plastics in the next ten years in audio and other fields....................
Vague? Qui? Moi? C'mon, Steve. It's a dead giveaway.
Of some semi-conducting material...Am I teaching kindergarten?
And all insulators behave the same? Think again, please.
I'd almost say paper, scissors...LOL.
No, neither do I. Reading the material carefully should however give you some idea on as to why they mentioned it in the first place.
Because it's only the hig-end manufactures that linked it that way to their blurb, silly.
It's not that it isn't there, it's just you having a problem with how it's linked....
Haven't tried yet, have you?😀
Cheers,😉
The gobbledygook-to-information ratio of that post just pegged the meter. Got better things to do than play silly guessing games.
se
se
Hi,
Way beyond your turf, huh?
Can't blame you...Many sleepless nights may get you up to speed though.
Actually, I wouldn't know of any fast way to pick up on at least 10 years of loss without a major effort?
Voting one way is one thing, being conservative on a topic is quite another.
Cheers,😉
Way beyond your turf, huh?
Can't blame you...Many sleepless nights may get you up to speed though.
Actually, I wouldn't know of any fast way to pick up on at least 10 years of loss without a major effort?
Voting one way is one thing, being conservative on a topic is quite another.
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
'Fraid so, Frank. Sorry. I studied English in school. Not Gibberish and Doubletalk.
se
Hi,
No problem, I only learned gibberish here. Still tried to be a mensch though.
Will talk later...or try a little harder.
Ciao,😀
No problem, I only learned gibberish here. Still tried to be a mensch though.
Will talk later...or try a little harder.
Ciao,😀
Ummmm...Guys???
Can anyone here explain what the #### a micro diode is???
And, after doing so, please explain to me how a "micro-diode", which by the very geometric nature of it's existance, that of being orthogonal to the current flow, can affect a signal in a wire???
Anyone?? Please??
A non linear wire to wire interface, when the wires are equidistant from the axial center, and both within the same electric, magnetic, and time rate of change flux gradients, do not care what the contact resistance is...period..
For contacting wires having different axial distances, any discontinuity or nonlinearity in the interface will prevent flux expulsion effects between the two...meaning, no skin effect, no diodes, no non linearity orthogonal current flow..nada..
For any effect at the interface to occur, the conductivity of the barrier will have to be about the same as the conductivity of the shunt path within a strand of wire...otherwise, orthogonal current will not occur...
On dielectrics....I read those cap papers...I work with dielectrics that run 6 kilovolts per mil ( .001 inch), in temperatures from room to liquid helium....When someone can explain to me how a capacitor dielectric non-linearity at energy densities 6 to 9 orders of magnitude greater than any wire application, and voltage gradients 3 to 4 orders higher can affect signal wires, nevermind be measured....you will have my undivided attention..
Any numbers there guys? Any data? Any VALID research?? (handwaving is not a viable scientific technique).
Cheers, John
Can anyone here explain what the #### a micro diode is???
And, after doing so, please explain to me how a "micro-diode", which by the very geometric nature of it's existance, that of being orthogonal to the current flow, can affect a signal in a wire???
Anyone?? Please??
A non linear wire to wire interface, when the wires are equidistant from the axial center, and both within the same electric, magnetic, and time rate of change flux gradients, do not care what the contact resistance is...period..
For contacting wires having different axial distances, any discontinuity or nonlinearity in the interface will prevent flux expulsion effects between the two...meaning, no skin effect, no diodes, no non linearity orthogonal current flow..nada..
For any effect at the interface to occur, the conductivity of the barrier will have to be about the same as the conductivity of the shunt path within a strand of wire...otherwise, orthogonal current will not occur...
On dielectrics....I read those cap papers...I work with dielectrics that run 6 kilovolts per mil ( .001 inch), in temperatures from room to liquid helium....When someone can explain to me how a capacitor dielectric non-linearity at energy densities 6 to 9 orders of magnitude greater than any wire application, and voltage gradients 3 to 4 orders higher can affect signal wires, nevermind be measured....you will have my undivided attention..
Any numbers there guys? Any data? Any VALID research?? (handwaving is not a viable scientific technique).
Cheers, John
Oh, speaking of handwaving, here's the other John's excuse for refusing my offer to send him the same set of cables for measurement that I'll be sending Bruno:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/6986.html
se
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/6986.html
se
Saw that..
Too bad he resorts to that particular type of handwaving, rather than trying to find the cause of his harmonics.
Sometimes, needing to be right gets in the way..
Cheers, John (four more days till vacation..)😀
Too bad he resorts to that particular type of handwaving, rather than trying to find the cause of his harmonics.
Sometimes, needing to be right gets in the way..
Cheers, John (four more days till vacation..)😀
Folks, both SE and Sully are giving me trouble for not going along with their program. Well, personally, I have dealt with both individuals on the net for years, and I don't want to have anything to do with either one of them.
First, they have no significant experience in audio measurement. Ask them yourself.
They neither own or have direct access to audio measurement equipment that can make the measurements that I do, but this has never stopped them from criticizing me on my measurements. I have not ignored their criticisms, but I have not found much in them, either.
Now they have found a third party, Bruno, who gets null results with his tests. They insist that I send Bruno something. I don't think so.
I could be wrong in my tests, but I have not found anything up to this time, that there is anything wrong with them.
However, I have learned something new with my latest tests. The cost of the interconnect is NOT the primary indicator of cable distortion. I have found some cheap, freebee connectors that measure almost perfectly, and the worst cable measured within the week is an expensive IC, terminated with Tiffiny connectors (original Japanese type). The Radio Shack connectors have gotten better over the years, and only 1 out of 5 or so has any significant distortion. This was not true a few years ago, when I first tested these cables. Why? Who knows.
I hope that Sully and SE will stop their personal attacks on me. Moderators please note.
First, they have no significant experience in audio measurement. Ask them yourself.
They neither own or have direct access to audio measurement equipment that can make the measurements that I do, but this has never stopped them from criticizing me on my measurements. I have not ignored their criticisms, but I have not found much in them, either.
Now they have found a third party, Bruno, who gets null results with his tests. They insist that I send Bruno something. I don't think so.
I could be wrong in my tests, but I have not found anything up to this time, that there is anything wrong with them.
However, I have learned something new with my latest tests. The cost of the interconnect is NOT the primary indicator of cable distortion. I have found some cheap, freebee connectors that measure almost perfectly, and the worst cable measured within the week is an expensive IC, terminated with Tiffiny connectors (original Japanese type). The Radio Shack connectors have gotten better over the years, and only 1 out of 5 or so has any significant distortion. This was not true a few years ago, when I first tested these cables. Why? Who knows.
I hope that Sully and SE will stop their personal attacks on me. Moderators please note.
John (Curl that is, not sully)
no hard feelings meant, but while I am sure you live
up to your reputation as an amplifier designer, which is not my
area of expertize, I am a scientist and it is obvious that
you don't know much about scientific methods and research.
By all means, keep doing your research, I encourage you to do so,
but unless you also learn at least the basics of repeatability of
experiments and scientific methods, don't expect people not
to question your claims. Whether they know how to measure
audio has nothing to do with it. It would be exactly the same
thing if you had made a claim that there are a certain number of
wasps per sq. mile on Iceland, and others report a zero figure.
Unless you can prove you found those wasps and counted them,
or you findings can be repeated by others, there will be and
should be people
questioning your findings. That doesn't mean the zero results are correct either until proven so.
(BTW, there are no wasps on Iceland).
If you are sure you have measured something real and have
results so valid that they need not be repeated by others, then
why don't you write up an article and send to a scientific
journal? However, I don't encourage you to do so, since if you
have so hard to take the mild criticism of Steve and Sully, I am
afraid the response from a scientific journal would give you
a heart attack, and I don't want you to suffer that, since I
have nothing against you as a person (wouldn't have wished
you a heart attack in any case, of course).
There are others on the forum doing similar things, but I guess
most of them don't have much of a reputation outside this
forum to care about, so maybe it's better to just let them play
around and make fools of themselves.
Some people in audio seem to think that just becuase they
are so experienced in audio, they can make up their own
rules for things: what the meaning is of a sentence in english,
how the logic of arguments work, how human psychology work,
how facts are established etc. etc. What are they so afraid of?
I refuse to believe people in audio should be more stupid or
ignorant than other people. It reminds me of those sociologist
who claimed that physics is just a sociological convention (don't
know if that is a true story though).
Once again, this is not meant as a personal attack or insult,
but there are some things that eventually have to be said,
even if it hurts. I am sure you can give a lot of valuable
contribution to this forum, and you have done so in the past
in my opinion.
no hard feelings meant, but while I am sure you live
up to your reputation as an amplifier designer, which is not my
area of expertize, I am a scientist and it is obvious that
you don't know much about scientific methods and research.
By all means, keep doing your research, I encourage you to do so,
but unless you also learn at least the basics of repeatability of
experiments and scientific methods, don't expect people not
to question your claims. Whether they know how to measure
audio has nothing to do with it. It would be exactly the same
thing if you had made a claim that there are a certain number of
wasps per sq. mile on Iceland, and others report a zero figure.
Unless you can prove you found those wasps and counted them,
or you findings can be repeated by others, there will be and
should be people
questioning your findings. That doesn't mean the zero results are correct either until proven so.
(BTW, there are no wasps on Iceland).
If you are sure you have measured something real and have
results so valid that they need not be repeated by others, then
why don't you write up an article and send to a scientific
journal? However, I don't encourage you to do so, since if you
have so hard to take the mild criticism of Steve and Sully, I am
afraid the response from a scientific journal would give you
a heart attack, and I don't want you to suffer that, since I
have nothing against you as a person (wouldn't have wished
you a heart attack in any case, of course).
There are others on the forum doing similar things, but I guess
most of them don't have much of a reputation outside this
forum to care about, so maybe it's better to just let them play
around and make fools of themselves.
Some people in audio seem to think that just becuase they
are so experienced in audio, they can make up their own
rules for things: what the meaning is of a sentence in english,
how the logic of arguments work, how human psychology work,
how facts are established etc. etc. What are they so afraid of?
I refuse to believe people in audio should be more stupid or
ignorant than other people. It reminds me of those sociologist
who claimed that physics is just a sociological convention (don't
know if that is a true story though).
Once again, this is not meant as a personal attack or insult,
but there are some things that eventually have to be said,
even if it hurts. I am sure you can give a lot of valuable
contribution to this forum, and you have done so in the past
in my opinion.
Well, my contribution to solve cable distortion is here: http://www.pha.inecnet.cz/macura/buffer_en.html and I can guarantee that it works. The cable must be terminated at the end (50 Ohms), it probably has nothing to do with wave impedance, but with transfer by relatively high current contrary to standard voltage transfer.
john curl said:
Hmmm...John...what program are we promoting.. Scientific method??
...I've been on the net one year..
...What personal attacks???
Calling bad behavior bad behavior is not a personal attack..it is simply statement of fact..
Cheers, John
john curl said:
I didn't insist that you send anything to Bruno, John. You said the same thing over on AA. Where are you getting this nonsense?
What I did was offer (several times) to SEND YOU SOMETHING. That something being the same set of cables that I'll be sending Bruno so that you can each make the same measurements using virtually the same cables.
I've a set of old Radio Shack Gold interconnects, a set of brand new, unused Radio Shack Gold interconnects, and a set of bog standard A/V cables that came with my DishNetwork boxes.
I've taken each of these sets and separated the left/right channels and made two sets of cables each set comprising one channel of each cable.
I'll be sending one set to Bruno. The other set I offered to send to you so you could measure them as well and then we could compare your measurements and Bruno's measurements using what amounts to the same cables.
Where you dreamed up this nonsense about my insisting you send something to Bruno I can only guess.
Interesting.
AFTER I offered several times to send you and Bruno a set of BRAND NEW Radio Shack Gold interconnects (seeing as you said that after you'd used them for a time they didn't measure as bad) and AFTER you'd ignored that offer just as many times, all the sudden the Radio Shack connectors have got significantly better of the years and only 1 out of 5 of the new ones show significant distortion.
And what's this about the connectors? You previously claimed that there were diodes in the WIRES, and that YOU HAD MEASURED THEM!
Remember?
Hate to be the one to tell you, BUT there are diodes in your metal wires. More than you will ever bother to measure. I have measured them.
So now it's the CONNETORS that are causing all the problems? What happened to the wires?
Why do I get the feeling that you're just making things up as you go along, just like you made up the nonsense about my insisting you send something to Bruno?
Why do I get the feeling that you'll throw up any sort of smokescreen in order to protect your precious distortion measurements from any sort of valid scrutiny?
se
Steve Eddy said:
Nope, the wife of my best friend is from Iceland and she is
absolutely paranoid about them, as most icelanders seem to
be, for the reason they don't have any wasps or similar insects
there and don't grow up with them as a normal, although,
irritating phenomenon.
Christer said:
Hehehe.
What I meant was White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, otherwise known as WASPs. According to Webster, "an American of Northern European and esp. British stock and of Protestant background; esp : a member of the dominant and the most privileged class of people in the U.S. -- sometimes used disparagingly."
Sorry for the confusion.
Damn foreigners. 🙂
se
Steve Eddy said:
Actually, since you wrote it in capitals I realized afterwards
that you probably meant something else. I had never heard
of that abbreviation, though.
BTW, since there are no bumblebees on Iceland either, can the
bumblebees fly there? 🙂 (Guess I am too tired to think about
the logicc of that one right now).
Bumblebess yesterday, wasps today.
What's on the agenda tomorrow? Ticks, maybe?
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