I think bare ended cables should be ok, and we fit our own connectors.
I think a cheap coax cable should be included too.
I don't care about whatever numbering/coding system is used, so long as it is accurate.
"Agreed. As I'd stated before, if the results turn out positive, I'd be more than happy to contribute to writing up a paper to submit to the AES."
Probably a three way collaboration is appropriate.
"Yes, I guess I could do that, if Eric doesn't mind (I have had some mail contact with him and think we have a peace agreement, even if we disagree about certain things)."
You only are disagreeing about things that you have no experience of.
"Eric, won't mind for sure...he's a very nice fellow, one I'd like to have as a neighbour... "
Yeah, but we'd be drinking beer all the time and never get anything done !.
Eric.
I think a cheap coax cable should be included too.
I don't care about whatever numbering/coding system is used, so long as it is accurate.
"Agreed. As I'd stated before, if the results turn out positive, I'd be more than happy to contribute to writing up a paper to submit to the AES."
Probably a three way collaboration is appropriate.
"Yes, I guess I could do that, if Eric doesn't mind (I have had some mail contact with him and think we have a peace agreement, even if we disagree about certain things)."
You only are disagreeing about things that you have no experience of.
"Eric, won't mind for sure...he's a very nice fellow, one I'd like to have as a neighbour... "
Yeah, but we'd be drinking beer all the time and never get anything done !.
Eric.
Rob M said:
Yeah, but I don't think your "fairly confident" will necessarily fly with more demanding critics. If the results turn up positive, I want them to be as unambiguous as reasonably possible. 10 out of 10 would give me cause to do further testing, but not enough cause to come to any conclusion.
Yes. And wouldn't everyone love to have "only a 5% chance" of winning the lottery. 🙂
Thanks. Since the results will be made public, everyone will have an opportunity to chew on 'em. 🙂
se
As Steve said, it is sufficient to prove that one person can hear
a difference. Thus, considering how confident Frank and Eric
are that they can hear it, we would expect both to succed or
fail, I guess. Then it may actually be interesting if they don't
do the test the same way. Say, eg. Frank uses unterminated
wires and Eric terminated, and both succeed, then we have
in fact conducted two similar experiments. Or one may use
them as CD interconnects and the other as internal wiring in
an amp, or whatever. I don't quite know
where we would end up in this case if one of them fails, but
not the other one, but we would still have a proof of one
individiual hearing that a cable is directed under the
circumstances that individual did the test.
a difference. Thus, considering how confident Frank and Eric
are that they can hear it, we would expect both to succed or
fail, I guess. Then it may actually be interesting if they don't
do the test the same way. Say, eg. Frank uses unterminated
wires and Eric terminated, and both succeed, then we have
in fact conducted two similar experiments. Or one may use
them as CD interconnects and the other as internal wiring in
an amp, or whatever. I don't quite know
where we would end up in this case if one of them fails, but
not the other one, but we would still have a proof of one
individiual hearing that a cable is directed under the
circumstances that individual did the test.
Hi,
I don't think any of us have any interest to cheat here, if I, or we both fail the test then that's still fine by me...
Believe me, the last thing I want is directive components in my life...'till now I've believed them to be there.
Oh, and that's peanuts compared to tube rolling...that's something to really drive you of your rockers, believe me.
Still it's there to be heard...
Cheers,😉
I don't think any of us have any interest to cheat here, if I, or we both fail the test then that's still fine by me...
Believe me, the last thing I want is directive components in my life...'till now I've believed them to be there.
Oh, and that's peanuts compared to tube rolling...that's something to really drive you of your rockers, believe me.
Still it's there to be heard...
Cheers,😉
mrfeedback said:
Not at all. From my point of view it is you not understanding
what I have been arguing about, but let's not continue that
discussion. I think we can agree that we disagree on what
we disagree on. 🙂
I am very pleased that we have found a way to conduct a
valid test that both you and Frank agree on as acceptable.
Basically, if you can get to a 95% confidence level (significance of 0.05), that's a good indication that you've got something. What I'd suggest is two rounds of tests, with recoding in between. If we can find one or two more volunteer test subjects, that would be even better. And with enough people and trials, we can aggregate the results and see if there's any general significance.
I'm out of the country for the next week, but I'll write up an analytical protocol for everyone to agree on when I get back.
I'm out of the country for the next week, but I'll write up an analytical protocol for everyone to agree on when I get back.
fdegrove said:
How do you figure that? It doesn't require any more than one person to establish actual audibility. As long as the method of the test itself is sound, it doesn't matter.
You think if I was able to dump a Big Foot on the steps of the Smithsonian Institution that the academic world would say "Sorry, this is just one Big Foot. We're not convinced. Bring us some more."?
se
SY said:
I was thinking of 5 trials of 20 pairs per trial, with each 20 pair encoded for each trial, for a total of 100 evaluations.
Sure. Though I think that would be of far less importance than establishing actual audibility.
Hasta la vista, SY! Have a safe trip.
se
Hi,
You little rat...don't even dare to tell me you're going to France once more without going through Belgium again?
Man, you have no idea what you're missing, even Red Chief would feel right at home with Benny's kids Noah and Sasha...
Not to mention the stashes of our local wine we secretly keep in our cellars...
IOW, you're most welcome...addresses and phone numbers at your request...
Shall we wait for your retun?
Cheers😉
You little rat...don't even dare to tell me you're going to France once more without going through Belgium again?
Man, you have no idea what you're missing, even Red Chief would feel right at home with Benny's kids Noah and Sasha...
Not to mention the stashes of our local wine we secretly keep in our cellars...
IOW, you're most welcome...addresses and phone numbers at your request...
Shall we wait for your retun?
Cheers😉
fdegrove said:
Strictly speaking you should both use the same set of cables, although that may be a bit of a logistics problem. Maybe if two sets of cables are made up, you should exchange and test the other parties cables as well.
Regards,
Tony.
wintermute said:
Hmmmm. There may be some merit in that. And this involving the US, Australia and Belgium, it is a bit of a logistics problem as well as much more expensive in terms of shipping costs. Since the cables should come back here for inspection before sending them off to the other, you're looking at going from the US to Australia/Belgum, from Australia/Belgium to the US, from the US to Belgium/Australia and finally from Belgium/Australia to the US.
Though if there's any merit to what Frank had said previously about the effect diminishing as the cables break-in, that could ultimately be problematic.
I think as long as the sets sent to Eric and the sets sent to Frank are made the same all will be well.
se
SY said:
Hmmm. Well a 9-1/2 x 12-1/2 Global Priority envelope (whether to Australia or Belgium) is $9.00. If Eric and Frank each try each others' pairs and we do 5 trials, you're looking at $180 for postage. And don't forget, they're going to have to send all this stuff back so it doubles their costs as well.
Personally I don't think there's any need for them to listen to each others' sets as long as each of their sets comes off the same spool.
se
By the way, if we do this with un-terminated wires, we could get by with a 6 x 10 evelope for just $5.
se
se
UPS gives me a pretty good rate since we ship a LOT of packages. That said, wires from the same reel, contiguous as possible, should indeed do fine. Saves some recoding, too.
SY said:
Ok. Might want to get post codes from Eric and Frank and see what it'd cost and compare it to USPS rates.
Anyway, won't be any problem to do all the test pairs for both of them continuously off the same spool.
se
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