Cable Directionality (Moved Threadjacking)

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#182
Why is it that ONLY physical causes are suspected and NEVER psychological causes?
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Simply because those of us that know how the brain / ear interface works in terms of it's unreliabilities and easily-fooled psychological mechanisms develop listening methods that eliminate the short-term impact of psychological effects.

It's called listening to music over a long period of time - try it, it works 😉

Andy.
 
#183
SY said:
Unlikely in the extreme. The extrusion temperatures for plastic insulation are an order of magnitude too low for something like that. Add in heat capacity and thermal mass of the copper (we don't exactly let it come to an equilibrium temperature with the molten plastic!), and what you've got is uninformed speculation about an unproved phenomenon.
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Spinning theories, making empty claims and wild speculations is REALLY easy. Anybody can do it. Have you read my paper on quantum silting theory?

A rigorous, rational, systematic and perhaps most importantly open-minded pursuit of the truth requires significantly greater effort.

se
 
#184
Steve,

Julian, more than many, would have been quite happy I'm certain to have discussed or had his theory questioned on the basis of someone with greater knowledge.

Try reading the original text I posted, it starts 'I can't tell you why ...'

Andy
 
#187
I remember reading about people useing enamel coated wire (similar to wire used in transformers) as signal cable and having good results. it seems like such would be especially good for balenced interconnects. in any case, in your experience, jc, how does teflon compare to enamel?
 
#189
Where has it been established that the psychological effects in question are short-term? Or is this just another theory?
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It hasn't - to my knowledge there are no published long-term listening tests, all BT or DBT tests have been, by my own definition, 'short term'.

There you are Steve, now you have something productive to do.

Andy.
 
#191
for various apps -- power transfer wire in power supply, AC power cords, interconnects, speaker wire. i mean for some of these you'd need thicker than 30g wire, but for equal size of conductor, how do you preceive enamel to teflon.

also, not sure if it's been mentioned, but i could see how there could be a directionality of AC, but not so much wire. by this i mean a wave in which the peaks are strongly in one polarity (not a pure sine wave as that implies a DC offset).

as for reversing cables, do the effects stay? or would you need to refresh the direction of the cables regularly in which case the cables would become directional due to the environment but not be directional by some intrisic property.
 
#192
ALW said:
It hasn't - to my knowledge there are no published long-term listening tests, all BT or DBT tests have been, by my own definition, 'short term'.
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I wasn't referring to the length of the test, I was referring to the persistence of the psycholigical effects which can cause there to be a perception of a difference even in the absence of any physical difference. You seemed to imply that these psycholigical biases were short-term. Hence my question.

As for long-term listening tests, for what it's worth, Tom Noisaine has carried out long-term double-blind tests with a number of individuals over periods of months, in their own homes using their own sytems. Thus far there have only been null results.

Anyway, it's fun to discuss physics purely for the sake of discussing physics, but I don't see how it does anything to advance our knowledge with regard to the broader issues here until one can first establish with reasonable objective certainty that any of the effects discussed are in fact audible.

se
 
#193
theChris said:
for various apps -- power transfer wire in power supply, AC power cords, interconnects, speaker wire. i mean for some of these you'd need thicker than 30g wire, but for equal size of conductor, how do you preceive enamel to teflon.
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All I can say is that I enjoy the 30 gauge quad braid magnet wire (solderable polyurethane) that I'm using currently.

Though even in objective terms it's a bit difficult to make any direct comparisons as the thickness of the enameled insulation is far thinner than any Teflon insulation that I'm aware of.

However I ran some numbers a while back which showed that with a far thinner non-Teflon insulation there was less involvement of the insulation, even when accounting for the closer spacing of the conductors, than with the thinnest Teflon insulated wire that I'm aware of.

also, not sure if it's been mentioned, but i could see how there could be a directionality of AC, but not so much wire. by this i mean a wave in which the peaks are strongly in one polarity (not a pure sine wave as that implies a DC offset).
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Yes. Any asymmetrical waveform will have a DC component. At least according to Fourier.

se
 
#194
Steve,

I wasn't referrring to the length of test either, more the length of listening period.

Most of us listen to determine whether something is better, musically - we're not trying to work out what physical item were listening to.

Most tests are trying to determine whether one is listening to a particular item and whether one has the ability to identify it repeatably. It's not quite the same thing and gives different results, I suspect.

What is obvious to me is that whilst you repeatedly wade in with your input to discussions such as these, you obviously don't actually do much listening or design iteration or trial of these effects.

If you did, your arguments would be different, of that I'm certain.

Andy.
 
#196
Re: Re: For interest

By the way, if Mr. Vereker's claim is correct and directionality has nothing to do with how the wire is drawn, but rather is brought about by the application of hot plastic insulation, then cables made of bare wire simply inserted into plastic tubing would not exhibit any directional characteristics.

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But the 'right direction' also depends on the system. Often cables with directional markings sound better the 'wrong' way round.

Directionality also applies to resistors!
 
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