I agree with all of this!I'd like to point out that tubes4hifi pre amp and power amp kits are sold and supported by two different individuals, Roy (pre) and Bob (power). Effectively two vendors under one roof.
Bobs power amp kits come with detailed documentation and he is very genial and responsive.
Roy's preamp kits come with minimal or even confusing documentation and he is a bit on the salty side. My guess is that the minimal documentation generates many questions that he is stuck answering repeatedly, thus rendering him "salty". Solution to make buyers and seller more happy is obvious.
Bobs power amp kits come with detailed documentation and he is very genial and responsive.
Roy's preamp kits come with minimal or even confusing documentation and he is a bit on the salty side. My guess is that the minimal documentation generates many questions that he is stuck answering repeatedly, thus rendering him "salty". Solution to make buyers and seller more happy is obvious.
Just my 2 Cents....
Hi...just to contribute to the debate...
I have built 3 kits from Tubes4Hifi and I have had problems with all of them. One fixed and sounding awesome and the other two collecting dust.... All of them had plenty of hum, too much gain or both.
The first kit was a ph-6 phono. I did not know that this kit was intended as a replacement phono preamp to be installed in the Dynaco amp and I had to buy from Roy a buffer to be used as stand alone unit. This had to be informed before buying in my opinion. I was uninformed.
One incorrect resistor and incorrect wiring caused some probles like hum but all this was fixed and I was very happy. Some time afterwards I sold this preamp and went to a higher spec phono and line preamp.
I bought the SP12 and PH14 preamps. Wrong decision because the PH14 phono is like the PH-6 with a buffer so again there was some kind of lacking info, I should have bought the PH-16. These kits were built with care and using some boutique parts in the caps (mundorf). Again the hum and the gain were unnacceptable. I contacted the vendor several times and he was kind to try to troubleshoot until there were no more clues. So I sent back the items from the Canary Islands, Spain to be checked by him. He found one resistor misplaced in the PSU of the PH-14 and a faulty tube in the SP-12, I think this are not hum related but still. Ok. I paid the invoice for labour time and return postage. I installed every thing back and there was hum again. I was very disappointed. Too much money spent and I could not manage to make this thing work considering that after all it was checked by the vendor himself.
I am not hiding myself, probably it is my fault, but for God sake it has been impossible to fix. And I promise I had spent many hours trying to....I do not understand this.
I have built several kits, from DACs to preamps to phono to power amps...From makers like Twisted Pear Audio, Lampizator, Tubelab, AMB, Parks Audio, Audiokit...you name it. I am pretty confident building kits and this sort problems some times arise (usually in preamps) but usually are fixed with correct wiring and common sense. Not this time.
In my opinion, the kits lack some kind of quality, my boards all were like being hand made in house with acid and lacking silkscreen, not like other vendors with proffesionally made pcb boards with all kind of data written on them. The info is very limited and if you face problems is very difficult to solve them. It is kinda lottery in my opinion.
My thinking is the kit versions are some kind of spin-off from the REAL bussines, COMPLETE units assembled with great care I suppose... from the vendor (from the photos and some opinions on the net).
So....Could I buy again from this vendor? I am afraid I wouldn´t in kit form. Maybe completely built units...but this is not DIY....
Just my two cents....I hope not to upset anybody. Nor the vendor or other diyers, your mileage can be different......
Regards,
Jorge
Hi...just to contribute to the debate...
I have built 3 kits from Tubes4Hifi and I have had problems with all of them. One fixed and sounding awesome and the other two collecting dust.... All of them had plenty of hum, too much gain or both.
The first kit was a ph-6 phono. I did not know that this kit was intended as a replacement phono preamp to be installed in the Dynaco amp and I had to buy from Roy a buffer to be used as stand alone unit. This had to be informed before buying in my opinion. I was uninformed.
One incorrect resistor and incorrect wiring caused some probles like hum but all this was fixed and I was very happy. Some time afterwards I sold this preamp and went to a higher spec phono and line preamp.
I bought the SP12 and PH14 preamps. Wrong decision because the PH14 phono is like the PH-6 with a buffer so again there was some kind of lacking info, I should have bought the PH-16. These kits were built with care and using some boutique parts in the caps (mundorf). Again the hum and the gain were unnacceptable. I contacted the vendor several times and he was kind to try to troubleshoot until there were no more clues. So I sent back the items from the Canary Islands, Spain to be checked by him. He found one resistor misplaced in the PSU of the PH-14 and a faulty tube in the SP-12, I think this are not hum related but still. Ok. I paid the invoice for labour time and return postage. I installed every thing back and there was hum again. I was very disappointed. Too much money spent and I could not manage to make this thing work considering that after all it was checked by the vendor himself.
I am not hiding myself, probably it is my fault, but for God sake it has been impossible to fix. And I promise I had spent many hours trying to....I do not understand this.
I have built several kits, from DACs to preamps to phono to power amps...From makers like Twisted Pear Audio, Lampizator, Tubelab, AMB, Parks Audio, Audiokit...you name it. I am pretty confident building kits and this sort problems some times arise (usually in preamps) but usually are fixed with correct wiring and common sense. Not this time.
In my opinion, the kits lack some kind of quality, my boards all were like being hand made in house with acid and lacking silkscreen, not like other vendors with proffesionally made pcb boards with all kind of data written on them. The info is very limited and if you face problems is very difficult to solve them. It is kinda lottery in my opinion.
My thinking is the kit versions are some kind of spin-off from the REAL bussines, COMPLETE units assembled with great care I suppose... from the vendor (from the photos and some opinions on the net).
So....Could I buy again from this vendor? I am afraid I wouldn´t in kit form. Maybe completely built units...but this is not DIY....
Just my two cents....I hope not to upset anybody. Nor the vendor or other diyers, your mileage can be different......
Regards,
Jorge
I had the good fortune of buying a noval version of the SP9 off of craigslist for a killer price. Came with remote volume and switching control but I'm missing the remote. This was either purchased assembled or built by someone who knew what they were doing. Has the optional all aluminum enclosure with the silk screened front panel, PH6 phono board, looks very professional inside and out. Once I threw out the JJ 12AX7 tubes and filled it with Telefunkin's and Sylvania's it totally blew every other preamp I have used into the weeds. Listening to familiar music and I'm plainly hearing instruments that were just blended in before, never knew they were there. Oh, and no hum, none what so ever. This feeds Mac MC40 monoblocks and than into big sensitive Altec's.
I contacted Roy to ask him a question and he got right back to me. I now have the schematics. Thank you Roy.
I know my experience is not as a kit builder but as an end user but I could not be happier with the product.
BillWojo
I contacted Roy to ask him a question and he got right back to me. I now have the schematics. Thank you Roy.
I know my experience is not as a kit builder but as an end user but I could not be happier with the product.
BillWojo
Welcome to my world.!
Those tubes4hifi kits are the REAL DEAL.
If you know how to tweak them little needs to be done to get into 10K gear realm.
Roy schematics are awesome and I started from their PCB boards as REFERENCE to build my own amps after that.
It is almost impossible to beat... minimalist, modern design, infinite possibilities, and JUST PUT THE BEST NOS tube you are in Heaven!
Right now listening with Harbeth and 850$ cartridge with theirs Phono, full buggle boy (special ones matched 100$ piece) Battery Bias input.
I got full Dynamicas in it, sonicaps, HOLCO most expensive caps, and input caps, PRP, and Copper foil 1 uf output caps 650V form ampohm !!! gets you there.
(actually cannot find any difference with a full transistor vintage phono , listening almost drunk every night..........
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I know... haha, I guess the THD is quite high in a vinyl and when I made the A/B tests I could not hear a difference. Don't get me wrong, this transistor phono was top quality, hifi.
When compared to my diy tubes4hifi, I could not find a difference, but trust me, I listen to my vinyl with the tube amp. the transistor amp is in the basement since 2000.
When compared to my diy tubes4hifi, I could not find a difference, but trust me, I listen to my vinyl with the tube amp. the transistor amp is in the basement since 2000.
What phono preamp needs, not just low THD in the normal mode, but high headroom and high slew rate limit, due to imperfections of vinyl reproduction. With headroom and "speed-room" the noise sounds separate from the soundstage, like sparks in the air, while in ordinary preamps it is intermodulated, mixed with the soundstage.
While were on the subject of different versions of the Aikidi preamp boards, I have a question that maybe one of you folks could answer.
A few years back I picked up a kit that was never assembled, came with some caps and resistors, etc. This is a very early Octal kit, board REV C, different in the later kits in that all the octal tubes are mounted in a straight line. Board is rectangular in shape, 4" x 10".
I have never seen one of these finished or heard anyone talk about this early revision board. Since I'm not near as well versed in building kits and these take some skill to do well, does anyone know if I'm going to be fighting with this or should I just buy the latest version board.
Knowing how well the SP9 sounds, I'm kind of interested in seeing what the octal version will do with some vintage 6SN7's.
Thanks
BillWojo
A few years back I picked up a kit that was never assembled, came with some caps and resistors, etc. This is a very early Octal kit, board REV C, different in the later kits in that all the octal tubes are mounted in a straight line. Board is rectangular in shape, 4" x 10".
I have never seen one of these finished or heard anyone talk about this early revision board. Since I'm not near as well versed in building kits and these take some skill to do well, does anyone know if I'm going to be fighting with this or should I just buy the latest version board.
Knowing how well the SP9 sounds, I'm kind of interested in seeing what the octal version will do with some vintage 6SN7's.
Thanks
BillWojo
I bought a tubes4hifi stereo 70 driver board a few years back. I had hum problems. It also suffered from a bunch of resistors that were running very hot turned colors and started to burned the board. This problem took months to rear its head. I replaced the resistors with higher wattage ones and sold it. I replaced the driver board with a Mapletree stereo 70 driver board. Will not buy another one or anything else from them.
I never had any issues with Roys Dynaco amp boards.
No hum , butterflys, bats etc.
If 2 people build specific board examples and have no hum and 2 people have, it should be clear its a builder issue..,.
2 big thumbs up for a rare site that sells DIY tube information and boards.
Regards
David
No hum , butterflys, bats etc.
If 2 people build specific board examples and have no hum and 2 people have, it should be clear its a builder issue..,.
2 big thumbs up for a rare site that sells DIY tube information and boards.
Regards
David
2 big thumbs up for a rare site that sells DIY tube information and boards.
Yes, and overheating multiple resistors in a driver board? Builder issue because the only resistors which could heat up are the dividers for the high power supply voltage reduction. The tubes are drawing a few milliamp at low voltage, maybe 5 watts dissipation for the whole stereo board including inside the 3 tubes in total.
Yes, and overheating multiple resistors in a driver board? Builder issue because the only resistors which could heat up are the dividers for the high power supply voltage reduction. The tubes are drawing a few milliamp at low voltage, maybe 5 watts dissipation for the whole stereo board including inside the 3 tubes in total.
My two cents.
I've built both an SP14 preamp from Roy and a pair of M125 monoblocks from Bob.
The SP14 performs flawlessly. The M125s perform flawlessly.
Bob's documentation is fantastic. The M125 kits are well worth the money, probably overkill in terms of power output but that is rarely a bad thing.
Roy's documentation is less good but as stated earlier in this thread, Roy gives a pretty solid disclaimer on this.
In saying that, the documentation Roys gives was sufficient for me to build an SP14 as my first tube amp project, with little experience building electronics before this. The only issue I had was a dry joint, which I quickly found and fixed, this aside; everything worked flawless first time and has had no issues in the 8 years since.
I have no reservations recommending these guys.
I've built both an SP14 preamp from Roy and a pair of M125 monoblocks from Bob.
The SP14 performs flawlessly. The M125s perform flawlessly.
Bob's documentation is fantastic. The M125 kits are well worth the money, probably overkill in terms of power output but that is rarely a bad thing.
Roy's documentation is less good but as stated earlier in this thread, Roy gives a pretty solid disclaimer on this.
In saying that, the documentation Roys gives was sufficient for me to build an SP14 as my first tube amp project, with little experience building electronics before this. The only issue I had was a dry joint, which I quickly found and fixed, this aside; everything worked flawless first time and has had no issues in the 8 years since.
I have no reservations recommending these guys.
I had a very dry joint once, I completely missed soldering it.
An even worse fault was missing inserting a grid stopper resistor.
An indication it was missing was a red plating valve.
I agree 100%. Buyer beware when dealing with Roy. He is not a good human. He is rude and will straight up lie about a situation if it makes him look bad. I have built 2 m125’s a sp14 and a ph16. All of the builds went okay but I have some lingering hum. Mine are in a wood case so I’m currently opening them up to add some shielding. That I can deal with. The m125 kits were flawless. The documentation was spot on and if any questions arose Bob was super helpful.
Roy’s kits are a mess. At least currently. Missing part and wrong parts all over the place. On top of that Roy is flat out rude. If your not an engineer he uses that as his out for every situation and instantly starts blaming. I’m not an engineer but I’m a great tech that can follow instructions. I could have tolerated all of this but the straw that broke the camels back was the Auto bias boards that Are a mod kit from Roy for the m125.
He provided 2 different sets of completely wrong directions. The amp was clipped and sounded horrible after the install. When I questioned him about some wiring on the narrative that seemed incorrect he insisted that is was correct and started with the insults. He likes to say that if you have a problem it’s probably just over your head. Finally after 3 weeks of frustration and insults from Roy I went to his dynaco forum. There I realized several people were having the same issue. After working through the issue in the forum it came to light that the instructions were wrong and we came up with the correct method in the forum with no help from Roy. Now to the lying part. Whenever there’s an issue he ALWAYS says that your the only one having the issue so it must be you. However with mine and the issue with the OP it was on his end and many people had the issue. When the forum started to turn on Roy and people started to share stories of his rudeness he deleted and edited other people’s posts then banned me. If you like being insulted and dealing with the fragile ego of a man baby then go for but otherwise BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Roy’s kits are a mess. At least currently. Missing part and wrong parts all over the place. On top of that Roy is flat out rude. If your not an engineer he uses that as his out for every situation and instantly starts blaming. I’m not an engineer but I’m a great tech that can follow instructions. I could have tolerated all of this but the straw that broke the camels back was the Auto bias boards that Are a mod kit from Roy for the m125.
He provided 2 different sets of completely wrong directions. The amp was clipped and sounded horrible after the install. When I questioned him about some wiring on the narrative that seemed incorrect he insisted that is was correct and started with the insults. He likes to say that if you have a problem it’s probably just over your head. Finally after 3 weeks of frustration and insults from Roy I went to his dynaco forum. There I realized several people were having the same issue. After working through the issue in the forum it came to light that the instructions were wrong and we came up with the correct method in the forum with no help from Roy. Now to the lying part. Whenever there’s an issue he ALWAYS says that your the only one having the issue so it must be you. However with mine and the issue with the OP it was on his end and many people had the issue. When the forum started to turn on Roy and people started to share stories of his rudeness he deleted and edited other people’s posts then banned me. If you like being insulted and dealing with the fragile ego of a man baby then go for but otherwise BUYER BEWARE!!!!
This is quite fascinating. I'm a complete beginner. An all tube phone pre is especially appealing but I'm not finding many kits. tubes4hifi looked like there was potential. Then I read Roy's disclaimer where he "assume a builder knows how to hook up the input signal, output signal, high voltage, and filament voltage." Why would he assume that? I would assume a person who knows how to wire dangerous voltage components wouldn't need a kit!
The tone of the disclaimer is what brought me to the forum. What I've gathered is that these are potentially good products but they are not for beginners and the kit is isn't really a kit at all where one receives all the parts with a step-by-step guide that corresponds with the supplies.
I see why beginners go for the Elekit and Bottlehead stuff.
The tone of the disclaimer is what brought me to the forum. What I've gathered is that these are potentially good products but they are not for beginners and the kit is isn't really a kit at all where one receives all the parts with a step-by-step guide that corresponds with the supplies.
I see why beginners go for the Elekit and Bottlehead stuff.
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