I'm thinking of buying or building a simple sealed sub. Building would be fun, but I have other speaker projects that keep me occupied, so I don't absolutely need another one. So the question is this: If I have $500 to spend, to either build or buy a powered, sealed subwoofer, could I do much better than this SVS SB-1000? They claim an F3 of 24 Hz (is that believable?).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AF88C0...82059&linkCode=osi&psc=1&tag=c_1c_a_o-20&th=1
My main interest is music, not home theater. And I'm sure I don't need 300 watts, 100 watts would probably be enough.
I want to end up with a compact powered, sealed, subwoofer. Is there a driver and plate amp I could buy for less that could be much better?
Thanks,
Eric
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AF88C0...82059&linkCode=osi&psc=1&tag=c_1c_a_o-20&th=1
My main interest is music, not home theater. And I'm sure I don't need 300 watts, 100 watts would probably be enough.
I want to end up with a compact powered, sealed, subwoofer. Is there a driver and plate amp I could buy for less that could be much better?
Thanks,
Eric
The reason to build is because you want to build. If you have other projects in your queue and don't want to go to the effort, go ahead and buy the SVS.
I haven't heard the SVS, I must admit. Stuff I've read about them sounds positive. I would believe 20-something Hz with room gain. I have heard HSU subs and think they're pretty good, but their cheapest is up a bit from your target price and a fair bit larger.
In the past I would have said you could save some money building your own, but plywood is still really pricey. So it may be a wash for the time being (if you want to stay at 12" + 300 watts), unless you can spot a good deal on some of the components. Mostly I see subs that want to be ported, so I'm not sure what driver I would suggest specifically for sealed. I'm sure someone will have a suggestion for what's cheap and good.
I haven't heard the SVS, I must admit. Stuff I've read about them sounds positive. I would believe 20-something Hz with room gain. I have heard HSU subs and think they're pretty good, but their cheapest is up a bit from your target price and a fair bit larger.
In the past I would have said you could save some money building your own, but plywood is still really pricey. So it may be a wash for the time being (if you want to stay at 12" + 300 watts), unless you can spot a good deal on some of the components. Mostly I see subs that want to be ported, so I'm not sure what driver I would suggest specifically for sealed. I'm sure someone will have a suggestion for what's cheap and good.
Adam,
Appreciate the input. And it's not so much about "saving money" so much as not "wasting money". That is, if I could make something as good for half the price, and, it could also be something I could call my own, that would be awesome.
I'm looking at this driver: DA RSS265HF
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-RSS265HF-8-10-Reference-Series-HF-Subwoofer-8-Ohm-295-442
And this amp: DA SPA-250
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SPA250-250-Watt-Subwoofer-Amplifier-300-803
With these, I'm close to the price of he SVS sub. Are there better drivers and amp for less?
Eric
Appreciate the input. And it's not so much about "saving money" so much as not "wasting money". That is, if I could make something as good for half the price, and, it could also be something I could call my own, that would be awesome.
I'm looking at this driver: DA RSS265HF
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-RSS265HF-8-10-Reference-Series-HF-Subwoofer-8-Ohm-295-442
And this amp: DA SPA-250
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SPA250-250-Watt-Subwoofer-Amplifier-300-803
With these, I'm close to the price of he SVS sub. Are there better drivers and amp for less?
Eric
Dang! That Dayton Reference 10 HF, I remember that being like $120 or so. I kinda got to where I wanted to be with my sub and haven't been keeping an eye on the market. I guess that was a few years ago... Now it says $205!
Note, you linked the 8 ohm version. The plate amp you chose touts 250 watts, but that's at 4 ohms. Amp claims 156 w @ 8 ohms. There is a 4 ohm version of that driver you could go for instead.
You could use Dayton MX10-22. It's $140. Sealed in 1 cuft it's down -9 dB at 30 Hz. But that plate amp says it can put in 6 dB of boost @ 35 Hz. You'd have room gain, also. Seems like it might flatten it out OK. Of course, just my late night idea, I've no experience with the driver. I'm always happy to come up with nutty ideas when it's someone else's money on the line...
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...cursion-DVC-Subwoofer-2-Ohms-Per-Coil-295-164
Note, you linked the 8 ohm version. The plate amp you chose touts 250 watts, but that's at 4 ohms. Amp claims 156 w @ 8 ohms. There is a 4 ohm version of that driver you could go for instead.
You could use Dayton MX10-22. It's $140. Sealed in 1 cuft it's down -9 dB at 30 Hz. But that plate amp says it can put in 6 dB of boost @ 35 Hz. You'd have room gain, also. Seems like it might flatten it out OK. Of course, just my late night idea, I've no experience with the driver. I'm always happy to come up with nutty ideas when it's someone else's money on the line...
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...cursion-DVC-Subwoofer-2-Ohms-Per-Coil-295-164
I was going to recommend the Rythmik L12 as another prebuilt $500 option but just noted the price has gone up a bit since I bought 2 a couple years ago.
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html
I think there is something to their servo tech. The bass is musical and strong down to 20 Hz in my listening room.
cheers
chris
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html
I think there is something to their servo tech. The bass is musical and strong down to 20 Hz in my listening room.
cheers
chris
You could use Dayton MX10-22. It's $140. Sealed in 1 cuft it's down -9 dB at 30 Hz. But that plate amp says it can put in 6 dB of boost @ 35 Hz. You'd have room gain, also. Seems like it might flatten it out OK. Of course, just my late night idea, I've no experience with the driver. I'm always happy to come up with nutty ideas when it's someone else's money on the line...
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...cursion-DVC-Subwoofer-2-Ohms-Per-Coil-295-164
Any reason to prefer the MX-22 over this?
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-RSS210HF-4-8-Reference-Series-HF-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-456
Still looks like a good option. A bit more than I was looking to spend. But some options I never saw before, like different roll-offs and the 3 different settings for bass extension.
Eric
According to BassBoxPro, not really. BB suggests about half a cubic foot for either one (you can get a few dB more output down low by increasing to 1.0 cuft). Bass rolloff below 60Hz is about the same (MX10-22 peaks a bit more at 100-110 Hz), and efficiency is about the same.
MX10-22 will take more power and has more excursion available. The plate amp doesn't push enough power to make use of the 10" extra power capacity. But for excursion, software suggests that if you were running max volume sine waves down low you would run out of excursion with the 8, but you never would with the 10. As a music sub you could probably do the 8 and be fine, but for the same price and the same size box you can do the 10. The 10 will be operating at lower excursion (with more cone area / Sd), and have more to spare, so I would guess that it would sound better than the 8?
On the other hand, inductance (Le) on the 10" is 4.3 mH, and it's only 0.7 on the 8". I know on a woofer (reproducing mids) you'd rather have lower inductance - it goes with distortion. But on a sub I'm not sure if you'd care. I think (?) Le indicates IMD, which on a restricted bandwidth system like a sub might not be an issue. If any of our readers know, pls chime in...
How about the Dayton Audio UM8-22, compared to the MX10-22?
The webpage claims a recommended sealed cabinet of only 0.35 ft3 for this driver. It seems too low to be true. And when I tried a few other calculators, they seemed to be suggesting much bigger boxes (if I was using them right, anyway).
Are there any simple, reliable sealed box calculators anyone can recommend? I'd like to be able to double check the cabinet volume recommendations show on the Parts Express pages.
The webpage claims a recommended sealed cabinet of only 0.35 ft3 for this driver. It seems too low to be true. And when I tried a few other calculators, they seemed to be suggesting much bigger boxes (if I was using them right, anyway).
Are there any simple, reliable sealed box calculators anyone can recommend? I'd like to be able to double check the cabinet volume recommendations show on the Parts Express pages.
When I did my sub, I used a 15" Planet Audio car sub and an Atrend car sub box. I sealed the slot port with a pool noodle and power it with a Yorkville AP1200 driven by a CX2310 crossover set to 16Hz.... It can push 950W into it wired at 8R.
Total cost was under 350$CAD. Thought I'd mention it as most people don't think to use car stuff in the house.
Total cost was under 350$CAD. Thought I'd mention it as most people don't think to use car stuff in the house.
I just recently started designing my own sub, and the general recommendation is to use winISD. Small learning curve, and use their help section in the program to learn how to add the t/s parameters so there's no conflicts.
After that just play with the drivers in different boxes and alignments and see what you get! Good luck!
Also, do yourself a favour and don't use a plate amp. Make the sub passive and use an external amp like a crown xls1002 or an inuke. It is likely to last longer and if it blows up in a couple of years it will be easy to replace.
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BassBoxPro thinks they all look pretty much the same at low frequency, in half cu ft sealed boxes. The ultimax 8" in ~.5 cuft cant be driven past Xmax by 250 watts, it's got plenty. They're all rolling off around 60 Hz, but you can turn on the boost on that plate amp to get flat-ish response down low. I don't know the Q on the boost, so tough to say how flat. They all score a few dB more output below resonance if you feel like giving 'em 1 cuft, the ultimax 8 is still within Xmax.
I upgraded a number of things in my sub at the same time, so it's tough to say how much to attribute to which aspect. But one thing I think helped was going to a full range amp for it, like muad says. That's more expensive, though. You need to make sure you have some capacity to low-pass it (muad mentioned amps with DSP). And a number of those pro-audio amps come with fans that can be loud in a hi-fi situation. I ended up getting an ice-power module (fanless) and using external DSP to do my cross. It's some extra complexity compared to a plate amp.
Car stuff can be good, I'm using an Alpine R15 as my home sub! I don't know as much about that market though.
I upgraded a number of things in my sub at the same time, so it's tough to say how much to attribute to which aspect. But one thing I think helped was going to a full range amp for it, like muad says. That's more expensive, though. You need to make sure you have some capacity to low-pass it (muad mentioned amps with DSP). And a number of those pro-audio amps come with fans that can be loud in a hi-fi situation. I ended up getting an ice-power module (fanless) and using external DSP to do my cross. It's some extra complexity compared to a plate amp.
Car stuff can be good, I'm using an Alpine R15 as my home sub! I don't know as much about that market though.
Attachments
Thanks. It's nice seeing the FR's overlaid like that. If you just look at, say, F3, the FR's seem different, but when they are overlaid you see that they are not really so different after all.
muad,
The external amp makes sense. But I'm looking at the Dayton Audio SPA250 plate amp, which is under $200. Are there external amps in that price range with the same features (high level inputs/outputs, gain, frequency, phase)?
Thanks,
Eric
So I just loaded winISD. But every driver I try to use "fails integrity check". Not just the one I entered, but all the preloaded drivers too. Anybody heard of this problem?
Eric
Yup that's common. There's conflicting values. If you look in the help files in the help menu, it tells you which parameters and the best order to type them in.
But every one of the preloaded drivers also fails the integrity check! You would think those were entered properly.
If you follow the help files, it works perfectly. After you enter a few, you will get the hang of it. Avoid the files you find online, and in the program, the info is likely outdated. Some are old, and sometimes manufacturers change ts parameters with new production runs. Always use the latest info direct from the manufacturer.
Yeah I would tend to go with this, although there are a lot of models of both. Some of those plate amps, I wonder if they really have enough heatsinking...
...though with a pro amp, check if fan noise is going to be an issue.
@AdamThorne mentions the impedance of the sub, i.e. to twist those words use a 4 ohm to get more power. After many years with amps I learned to disagree with this. At actual clipping with Class AB amplifiers you might gain 2 dB from 8 ohms to 4 ohms into purely resistive loads. That's not much.
I used to work for a gigantic autosound company and we had multiple discussions about rating at 12V vs 14V etc. One night over sake with the chief amplifier engineer he explained to me that amplifiers don't really put out power, they put out current, with power as a byproduct almost. The losses were proportional pretty much to the square of the current, just like Ohm's law. Cost was proportional to...the current? The square? I forget that part. But it seemed to me from some other discussion and bits of experimentation that actual dynamic power into clipping into nonresistive phase angles perhaps gained nothing at all, but definitely made more waste heat and used more current. Unfortunately I never got time to do some really definitive tests I must admit. Nevertheless my preference is to run a bigger amp at a higher impedance and not stress the amp to the 9s.