I guess you have not read my other thread then?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/158780-burning-running-fact-fiction.html
Maybe worth while doing a little research yourself before you pre-suppose and spread hypnotic suggestions.
Explain this one, I've built a 'dual mono' amplifier except for the driver stages where I used one transformer driving two seperate rectifier / pre-regulator circuits to supply the regulators on each amplifier board. It sounded very good with a nicely focussed soundstage. After a while I decided to install two seperate transformers to make it a real dual mono, so I've used the existing transformer on one channel and installed a new identical transformer on the other channel. No other changes were made.
I was quite surprised to hear that the soundstage was unfocussed to such an extent that I didn't like to listen to it. I left it playing on dummy loads and took a quick listen every second day. It took more than a week for the soundstage to become as focussed as it used to be.
Search your soul Andre and ask yourself whether it really has changed subjectively or not in that week ?
Do you really believe that it has, or is some mental process at work instead telling you that it should be better by now, and therefore it is ?
Or did doing the mod actually make things worse in reality (wiring changes, possibility of loops, interaction etc), yet again mentally you don't accept that scenario, so after a while you "believe" it to start to sound better.
Search your soul and ask yourself whether you refuse reality that doesn't suit your schematic model? 😉
Mooly, I and other people that ear differences don't fool themselves.
Consider this example:
You have a math/phisic model that represent light and describe perfectly, or reasonably so, light but in black and white.
You can do a whole world of useful calcs and applications based on that model.
But if you consider a broader reality (colors) that model is no longer valid.
According to that model you see the sky as grey, I look at sky and I tell you sky is blue!
You then refuse that reality, because doesn't fit your useful model, and state that sky is grey... 🙄
Every model is based on reality and tries to describe it via math.
Every model is a useful semplification of reality by definition.
If the model isn't good enough to describe reality you must modify the model, not refuse reality!
If it wasn't so we'll still know only Newton's Mechanics... 😀
I am not Mooly, but who says that you do? it is just that other folks and me don't dont find your statements credible.....that' is all....😉
When someone writes something like "Do you really believe that it has, or is some mental process at work instead telling you that it should be better by now, and therefore it is ?" to me means that he's stating that I'm fooling myself, or not?
That you hear differences is your reality... that's not in question by me...
What I don't accept is that the change you perceive is down to some mysterious change in the properties of the equipment, be it cables, transformers etc.
Talking about light isn't relevant... someone who wears glasses could say they perceive colours differently as the lenses "break in" and some unknown force is at work.
Audio has it's subtleties for sure, and I hear differences, and am acutely aware of changes in circuit design etc, but that same said circuit doesn't mysteriously change over time... rather your ear/brain combination finds/learns/appreciates aspects of the sound over time... and you perceive that as some kind of break in process.
And that same process is at work when you believe you are breaking in cables etc.
But if you ear that change a lot of times in different conditions and gears it could be reality what you have to do is investigate and try to find why not negate reality.
The mystery is so until someone explicates it, but a mysteious fact is still a fact... or at least could be.
If you don't know nothing about photochromic lenses you could think that some unknown force is at work but they're still acting as they were designed to...😀
Pull out coupling caps from whatever audio gear that uses elcos in that position, solder some sockets and socket a brand new Elna Silmic.
Listen to that gear and let it burn-in for 50 hours.
Listen again.
Put in that sockets a brand new identical Elna Silmic.
Listen again.
Just try it.
To me difference is so big you can't say you're fooling yourself and you have a control with the brand new cap.
No one argues that Electrolytic capacitors don't burn in, that's not in question, it's a simple chemical reaction and well understood.
That cables sound different after use is in question, and utterly unproven. If you hear differences that's great, if you enjoy them even better.
That cables sound different after use is in question, and utterly unproven. If you hear differences that's great, if you enjoy them even better.
Glad to know that you agree that elcos do change with burn-in (a logical consequence is that elettronic gear that uses elcos do change with burn-in).
The thread it's not only about cables but also electronic gear. 😉
As you can see I didn't make any comparison with cables so I didn't say that they change nor that they don't change. 😉
Unfortunately, the soi-disant "burn in" time for electrolytics is measured in minutes (or even seconds)...
Hi SY,
have you tried this?
I'm pretty sure the difference is measurable...
The capacitance difference may be measureable. If it makes the amp sound differently, the amp is incompetently designed.
jd
No, I don't have any gear that uses Elcos, and they're not made in 450V ratings, apparently (I use tube equipment). And the listening procedure you describe will not tell me anything about what the cap is or isn't doing.
If someone wants to give or loan me a few, I'll be happy to do some measurements to verify (or refute) your other hypothesis.
I'm talking about coupling caps, the amp design is irrelevant...
Perfect non-sense 🙁
Silmics costs as low as 0.16 US$ from Digikey.
When you'll make your next order to Digikey let me know and I'll Paypal you one or two dollars to buy some...
Sending some Simics from Italy would cost me more. 😉
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