In my last thread I asked what burn/run in times should be expected of new equipment, I realise now that I should have actually asked if folk believe it to be fact or fiction, so here goes....
Do you see burning/running in of new equipment as fiction?
Or;
Do you see burning/running in of new equipment as fact? If so, what would you say is to be expected and after what amount of time?
Namely in;
1. Solid state amplifiers
2. CD Players
3. Speakers
4. Interconnects
5. Speaker cables
I'm undecided myself so looking for as broad an answer as possible. I'm not looking to start a 'post war' though, so please refrain from attacking others for expressing their opinion, afterall, they're only opinions.
Thanks
Do you see burning/running in of new equipment as fiction?
Or;
Do you see burning/running in of new equipment as fact? If so, what would you say is to be expected and after what amount of time?
Namely in;
1. Solid state amplifiers
2. CD Players
3. Speakers
4. Interconnects
5. Speaker cables
I'm undecided myself so looking for as broad an answer as possible. I'm not looking to start a 'post war' though, so please refrain from attacking others for expressing their opinion, afterall, they're only opinions.
Thanks
Fiction for everything but speaker drivers but it seems impossible to express that in this overly simplified poll.
Thank you for your input. I'm sorry you do not favour the simplicity of my poll, I kept it simple with no specifics to hopefully recieve as broad a reply on burning/running in as possible.
Fact for mechanical parts.
Fiction for electronic parts.
Replies should be as simple as possible but not simpler 😉
Fiction for electronic parts.
Replies should be as simple as possible but not simpler 😉
It can be argued that with tubes it's not burn in as such but normal wear and tear, that deminishes the performance. I believe most people expect burn-in to somehow improve performance.
Electrolytics need to be formed, yes. Could probably be seen as a form of burn-in.
Don't forget that the original meaning of burn-in was the process to weed out early failures in equipment ('infant mortality'). You would fire up your amp for several hours or days and if it survived, it was deemed to be reliable and thus burned-in. With expensive equipment, it is often done in the factory to avoid shipping products that fail within a few days at the customers place. Mil spec equipment is routinely burned-in.
jd
Although this is true, there is also a "burn in" process whereby the getter sweeps up some of the residual gas in the first few hours of operation. The grid current decreases and (sometimes) cathode emission increases. This is one reason why tube power amps have to be rebiased after a few hours, but then the bias is stable for a long time thereafter.
Indeed. Having just spent the past five working days refurbing two 18" drivers that don't have the correct spare parts available any more, each bit of work required an hour or so running on sine wave to check each stage had bedded in properly. Just about all of them needed tweaking after testing.,
...and it is why the extra-cost service warranties offered here in the US by big box electronics retailers are a rip-off and the most profitable item they sell. Things tend to either fail quickly, thus falling under the manufacturer's warranty, or after a very long time, thus falling outside the extra-cost extended warranty.
(I took the liberty of fixing your typo)
In one of my previous life’s I was a QC (Quality Control) geek and I can confirm that the points made by janneman are a fact. When I performed QC inspection and analysis for a major mainframe computer manufacturer the commercial burn-in specification to spot infant mortality was 24 hours in a heat tent (closed off room with observation windows) operated at 100f (37.7C). The mil-spec stuff went for a 72 hour burn-in and vibration testing to boot. So – burn in will help with weeding out weak components that are bound to fail early in life.
I believe that the main point of this survey is does “burn-in” help the equipment being “aged” actually sound or perform better when compared to gear that has not undergone “burn-in”. As most have already replied – for mechanical things such as speakers it can make a big difference. This aspect is often seen in statements about how much the sound improves after a bit of “being played” for awhile and can be proven subjectively by listening test and objectively by measurement.
Electronic gear is a bit of a mixed bag but when all is said and done I will go with – “yes” it makes a difference. I have found this to be true especially with tube powered amplifiers and receivers and the effect is measurable with the proper test gear and testing process. For digital electronics I haven’t observed any improvement with a couple of exceptions – and that would be high accuracy clock and timing circuits and oddly enough switching power supplies. Trust me – high power SMPS fur-sure need time to “bake-in” and become stable.
I could continue with examples from high power radar and radio transmitters etc. – but the point will come out the same – yeah – my many years of experience and training have taught me that “burn-in” makes a difference, and it can be measured. 😉
I believe that the main point of this survey is does “burn-in” help the equipment being “aged” actually sound or perform better when compared to gear that has not undergone “burn-in”. As most have already replied – for mechanical things such as speakers it can make a big difference. This aspect is often seen in statements about how much the sound improves after a bit of “being played” for awhile and can be proven subjectively by listening test and objectively by measurement.
Electronic gear is a bit of a mixed bag but when all is said and done I will go with – “yes” it makes a difference. I have found this to be true especially with tube powered amplifiers and receivers and the effect is measurable with the proper test gear and testing process. For digital electronics I haven’t observed any improvement with a couple of exceptions – and that would be high accuracy clock and timing circuits and oddly enough switching power supplies. Trust me – high power SMPS fur-sure need time to “bake-in” and become stable.
I could continue with examples from high power radar and radio transmitters etc. – but the point will come out the same – yeah – my many years of experience and training have taught me that “burn-in” makes a difference, and it can be measured. 😉
1. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
2. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
3. Yes/True - but some need it more than others
4. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
5. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
2. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
3. Yes/True - but some need it more than others
4. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
5. I don't know. But most likely within reason No.
As the thread starter, I guess I should give my tuppence?
In my experience, apart from speakers being 'bright' out of the box but toning down after a couple of hours use, I haven't heard any benificial outcome from running any new electrical equipment for any amount of time, be it hours or weeks.
Having said that, most often than not when I have purchased a new amp/cd player or cable, the salesperson has said "give it time to run in". Some of the sellers were the shop owners themselves who predominantly sell high end gear and have done for many years. Why could that be? Surely when you work with something everyday you become an expert in that field? Could it be that in the 'old days' when components weren't as hardy or as stable as they are today, folk have simply carried the expectation on?
Who's right? them, me or you? Truthfully, I don't think there is an answer, just a varied opinion.
In my experience, apart from speakers being 'bright' out of the box but toning down after a couple of hours use, I haven't heard any benificial outcome from running any new electrical equipment for any amount of time, be it hours or weeks.
Having said that, most often than not when I have purchased a new amp/cd player or cable, the salesperson has said "give it time to run in". Some of the sellers were the shop owners themselves who predominantly sell high end gear and have done for many years. Why could that be? Surely when you work with something everyday you become an expert in that field? Could it be that in the 'old days' when components weren't as hardy or as stable as they are today, folk have simply carried the expectation on?
Who's right? them, me or you? Truthfully, I don't think there is an answer, just a varied opinion.
Nad, it's called compensation, and it's a recognised effect for any sensory stimulus. I suspect the shop guys are just misinterpreting the phenomenon.
Burning in
Here is my 2 cents
Speakers?: I am not sure, I got dumn ears or my wife told me I got selective hearing.
Electronics? : not, unless design & test was done with burned in parts ( My kind of design with salvaged parts)
Here is my 2 cents
Speakers?: I am not sure, I got dumn ears or my wife told me I got selective hearing.
Electronics? : not, unless design & test was done with burned in parts ( My kind of design with salvaged parts)
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