Can this be done? Actually can a cable really tell the difference between noise and music and if so, should a rock listener burn cables differently then a classical music and so on. I try and achieve a neutral system so I can play almost ANY kind of music and have it sound as it should. Some would say rock or classical or any other type of music is noise, but that would be a subject for another forum. So if I use a Led Zeppelin looped track to burn cables will they no longer perform as good with Yanni. I would think there could be a test tracks of noise that can give this sort of range, Or a variable frequency could be generated. But is that really what sets in the new cable? Does the conductor actually change and if so why so different with music or noise? Electrons flow is basically the same, it is are ear that hears the difference and not even in all cases.
If we could get interconnects or speaker wire with high temp silicone insulation no solder they could be burned in inside an oven at 425 F for 20 minutes or so. This would probably anneal the metal and leave it open to suggestion. (Don't actually try this it would probably oxidize the metal into black stuff).
78rpm, 33rpm... excuse me?
snakeoil alert burning in cables i do believe in (after, of course, having heard the difference) but this seems nonsense. From what i've read and heard, burning in has to do with the molecular metal matrix settling, induced by an electrical current going through the metal.
does it matter what frequency/which frequencies are used? If somebody has a link or an article about it, please post a link.
come on...
wouldn't the easiest way be to just take any high thd+n cheap opamp (for signal cables), hook it up directly to a cheap and inadequate rectifier bridge and cheap pcb-transformer, don't use bypass caps in the psu, make sure there's a lot of noise in the psu and connect the cables (with load) to the opamps output (after having made sure there's enough garbage coming through!).
throw all the rules, regulations, hints and tips overboard and just build a opamp-based electrical-junk-generator.
fdegrove said:
I'll try.
A cable or piece of wire could be called virgin as it comes from the factory. When music first goes through them it acts as an electro-magnetic shock and the magnetic monopoles begin to spin and align themselves in response to the first arriving voltage changes. As time passes the magnet monopoles spin down, settle in and become resistant to further change. The cables become set (biased if you will) toward sequences of events which resemble the "first use" input. The only way to unset the monopoles is to reverse the cable, sending the first use signal in the opposite direction.
The whole thing is a real problem for some because they may use rock as a first use signal. Later when another type of music is played it just doesn't sound quite right. The best solution to the problem, in my experience, is to use the most delicate and critical music to provide the initial set. Rock, which is less critical and most often sounds like crap anyway, will suffer much less.
mgmopar said:I understand Frank. The cables really don't know which way the signal is flowing, so of course you coulden't unburn them with that method. If do they do know, I better mark all my input ends of the cables so I don't accidentally mess with them. And check the polarity of all my fuses.
Yes, you should mark the input and output ends of cables. Note that some cable mfgs already do this for you. Would they do this if there were no merit to it?
Hi,
Thanks, Bill.
I didn't really mean to call you to the task but after reading your explanation I'm glad you did.
In fact I do vaguely recall having read this somewhere before. Probably in an audio mag or something related.
The idea of using a particular type of music to fo this initial burn in process does beg some questions though...
Any idea what manufacturers use to send through the cables?
Do you actually have a source (the more the merrier) with more info on this burn in process? Papers, journals, whatever...
Thanks for the great info,
Thanks, Bill.
I didn't really mean to call you to the task but after reading your explanation I'm glad you did.
In fact I do vaguely recall having read this somewhere before. Probably in an audio mag or something related.
The idea of using a particular type of music to fo this initial burn in process does beg some questions though...
Any idea what manufacturers use to send through the cables?
Do you actually have a source (the more the merrier) with more info on this burn in process? Papers, journals, whatever...
Thanks for the great info,
Quote Bill
I am not saying their is no merit to this, but because a manufacture does it doesn't convince me. I have seen plenty of things I doubt from manufactures. They continually updating things and selling improvement that have very little to do with the actual use or quality of equipment. This keeps people buying the new and improved versions. Do you thing this manufacture unit is worth the price? It might be for the sound reviewer but this forum can't seem to decide if a machine could even do it without the Hi Fi.
Here is a link for those that want to burn the wallet as well as cables
The one thing I think we ALL agreed on is that audio cables do sound different burned in but their are many different opinions on how that can be achieved. Some think is can only be done with music. I don't doubt a cable could be ruined by too high of a signal or too much load by trying to speed up the process but Rock or Classical or even Opera I wouldn't think would change the molecular structure of the conductor in different ways. (Maybe square dance music will form tighter square networks of atoms [I am getting a bit carried away here I will stop) Can the cable really be ruined with the wrong signal or music. Bill, can that be erased by switching the direction to so call start over? Or if the wrong signal used would the cable be considered unusable. I think I would probably be very happy working with some of those cables.
I would thing you could use an old Walkman or something on low volume with adapters and a small load to burn them in. You could even play the music that you plan to run on the system so the don't get trained to the wrong signal!
I am not saying their is no merit to this, but because a manufacture does it doesn't convince me. I have seen plenty of things I doubt from manufactures. They continually updating things and selling improvement that have very little to do with the actual use or quality of equipment. This keeps people buying the new and improved versions. Do you thing this manufacture unit is worth the price? It might be for the sound reviewer but this forum can't seem to decide if a machine could even do it without the Hi Fi.
Here is a link for those that want to burn the wallet as well as cables
The one thing I think we ALL agreed on is that audio cables do sound different burned in but their are many different opinions on how that can be achieved. Some think is can only be done with music. I don't doubt a cable could be ruined by too high of a signal or too much load by trying to speed up the process but Rock or Classical or even Opera I wouldn't think would change the molecular structure of the conductor in different ways. (Maybe square dance music will form tighter square networks of atoms [I am getting a bit carried away here I will stop) Can the cable really be ruined with the wrong signal or music. Bill, can that be erased by switching the direction to so call start over? Or if the wrong signal used would the cable be considered unusable. I think I would probably be very happy working with some of those cables.
I would thing you could use an old Walkman or something on low volume with adapters and a small load to burn them in. You could even play the music that you plan to run on the system so the don't get trained to the wrong signal!
Hi.
I once had a cable burned-in with Kreator's "Terrible Certainty" album (thrash metal) and when I tried to play Sinatra it just wouldn't play it! I mean it just stood there, mute !
I had to disconnect the cable, shake it a few times (to make them monopoles spinin' again) and then burn it in again with proper music.
After that experience, I keep diferent sets of interconnects which I use depending on the type of music I want to hear.
***************
pertaining to the original poster's Q:
"Burn-in is an electrical stress test that employs voltage and temperature to accelerate the electrical failure of a device. Burn-in essentially simulates the operating life of the device, since the electrical excitation applied during burn-in may mirror the worst-case bias that the device will be subjected to in the course of its useable life. Depending on the burn-in duration used, the reliability information obtained may pertain to the device's early life or its wear-out. Burn-in may be used as a reliability monitor or as a production screen to weed out potential infant mortalities from the lot."
erm... I think some 3 Amps through the cable should do the trick. <--- JOKE - don't try it
[ok, stop boo-ing me, I'll go away now]
I once had a cable burned-in with Kreator's "Terrible Certainty" album (thrash metal) and when I tried to play Sinatra it just wouldn't play it! I mean it just stood there, mute !
I had to disconnect the cable, shake it a few times (to make them monopoles spinin' again) and then burn it in again with proper music.
After that experience, I keep diferent sets of interconnects which I use depending on the type of music I want to hear.
***************
pertaining to the original poster's Q:
"Burn-in is an electrical stress test that employs voltage and temperature to accelerate the electrical failure of a device. Burn-in essentially simulates the operating life of the device, since the electrical excitation applied during burn-in may mirror the worst-case bias that the device will be subjected to in the course of its useable life. Depending on the burn-in duration used, the reliability information obtained may pertain to the device's early life or its wear-out. Burn-in may be used as a reliability monitor or as a production screen to weed out potential infant mortalities from the lot."
erm... I think some 3 Amps through the cable should do the trick. <---
JOKE - don't try it[ok, stop boo-ing me, I'll go away now]
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
Bill, I'm sure this is correct as the initial biasing mechanism, but I think the effect thereafter is a little more subtle.
I personally suspect the monopoles have a localised influence on the Plank constant, affecting the wave/particle duality of the electrons. This uncertainty error is likely to introduce random noise and distortion products into the signal transmission, but will also increase the rate of electron entangling.Some of these paired electrons will be captured over time in the atoms making up the conductor and insulation of the cable, but as they are paired with other electrons that are transmitted entirely through the system the cable will become more entangled on a quantum level.
This means that the cable will become more and more tuned to your choice in music over time, and as such, will only be burnt in by similar music. Random noise will not cause sympathetic quantum entanglement.
This is probably common knowledge amomg many forum members but it's worth reiterating and may explain some of the inconsistencies regarding burn-in experiences; Cables are similar to any other media in that some cannot be burned-in (read only), some can only be burned-in once (OTP) whilst others can be considered re-writeable (useful for anyone whos musical tastes change frequently).
It's often very difficult to identify which category a particular cable falls into and something I feel that manufacturers could assist in by adopting a labelling standard. Buying audio cables would then be a bit like buying a CD whereby the purchaser could choose between pre-recorded, write once or read/write.
It's often very difficult to identify which category a particular cable falls into and something I feel that manufacturers could assist in by adopting a labelling standard. Buying audio cables would then be a bit like buying a CD whereby the purchaser could choose between pre-recorded, write once or read/write.
to: rcavtctim
Sorry,
the quote in my post only referred to
Yes, I did say
I thought we were all believers from reading the conversation but (I did not say we all agree) (I said I think we all agree) so, I really did not put word in anyones mouth.
sorry for any confusion
By the way I do agree
Sorry,
the quote in my post only referred to
Yes, I did say
I thought we were all believers from reading the conversation but (I did not say we all agree) (I said I think we all agree) so, I really did not put word in anyones mouth.
sorry for any confusion
By the way I do agree
pinkmouse said:
That's more detail than I wanted to get into but you are pretty much correct. However, you have to remember that the distortion of Plank's constant is pretty much transitory. View the mechanism from within the electron matrix and you will see what I mean. Also, remember that the effects of the insulation do not come into play until the electron energy level is sufficient to overcome the conductor/insulator barrier. At that time, the barrier becomes cross-linked and photons are released as will be evidenced by 700nm radiation. Once even a single photon escapes, the cable will be set and can never be unburned.
Even though random noise will not cause the quantum entanglement there is the real possibility that burn in will be immediately followed by un-burn. This is of course not predictable, but why take a chance?
As to the papers on this subject which fdegrove asked about, my cat - Schrodinger - peed on them and I had to throw them out. If you have copies, please post them.
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