I would hate to have to do this corner with only sand paper by hand.markus76 said:
😀
Hase anyone finished and listened to them?
I have finished and listened to them. I showed them finished here before and I recently described my listening experiences. As I said, I was quite pleased. There is nothing that I would change about the final product. And thats using Summas as a comparison.
I wouldn't and don't suggest doing the sanding by hand. My point was that it is possible. In the US a palm sander costs about $20.
I wouldn't and don't suggest doing the sanding by hand. My point was that it is possible. In the US a palm sander costs about $20.
I'm wondering about cutomer response. Original designers quite often defent their designs to death. Besides, if the person providing listening impressions cannot identify certain detail information differences due to absolute polarity, then the listening impression is of little value to me.
Refer to photo attached,
This is NOT a kit, the cabinet looks very nice and price per pair ranges from $300-$398 depending on the finish.
BTW it uses horn as well.
It is posted here for comparison purpose and not meant as a criticism of the Nathan. It is possible to get good looking speakers at an excellent price.
This is NOT a kit, the cabinet looks very nice and price per pair ranges from $300-$398 depending on the finish.
BTW it uses horn as well.
It is posted here for comparison purpose and not meant as a criticism of the Nathan. It is possible to get good looking speakers at an excellent price.
Attachments
soongsc said:
What do you mean by, 'certain detail information differences due to absolute polarity' ?
Amazon special...or Rockler
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2127&cookietest=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7GD
geez... what's so hard about 1" roundovers? Been doing them for decades, just gotta get the right tools and setup. Sure beats sanding and/or hand finishing...this should be a no-brainer.
Here's someone doing a 1 1/2" roundover..
http://home.earthlink.net/~jmiyake/
That's why routers were made... but I guess if one doesn't know how to use them, the process could seem daunting...
John L.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2127&cookietest=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7GD
geez... what's so hard about 1" roundovers? Been doing them for decades, just gotta get the right tools and setup. Sure beats sanding and/or hand finishing...this should be a no-brainer.
Here's someone doing a 1 1/2" roundover..
http://home.earthlink.net/~jmiyake/
That's why routers were made... but I guess if one doesn't know how to use them, the process could seem daunting...
John L.
Wow - I hope markus finishes these soon...this thread is painful to watch, but i can't look away.
It's definitely a cautionary tale...are there any others who have received the kit and are documenting it? It'd be interesting to see if this truly is a one-off ****-up, or something to expect from gedlee (in which case, fuggedaboudit!)
It's definitely a cautionary tale...are there any others who have received the kit and are documenting it? It'd be interesting to see if this truly is a one-off ****-up, or something to expect from gedlee (in which case, fuggedaboudit!)
There have been two others who posted, you must have missed those. I mistakenly sent four right panels to one guy and four left to the other, but they just swapped them out and are now all set.
You can expect them to sound great but be a lot of work to assemble. Simply buy them assembled and all of this discussion is academic.
You can expect them to sound great but be a lot of work to assemble. Simply buy them assembled and all of this discussion is academic.
The only reviews or listening impression notes I've found so far are from people who listened to the Summas and subs in Dr. Geddes listening room.
Can someone please provide a link to reviews or impressions of the sound of the Summa or Nathan in their own, after purchase, environment?
I gather multiple subs are preferred in conjunction with these speakers, but does that mean the speakers aren't full range, or, not satisfying in LF, by themselves?
Can someone please provide a link to reviews or impressions of the sound of the Summa or Nathan in their own, after purchase, environment?
I gather multiple subs are preferred in conjunction with these speakers, but does that mean the speakers aren't full range, or, not satisfying in LF, by themselves?
Hey guys, on with the tale 🙂
Here's the first sanded version (80 grid):
After having to leave all my tools in Germany the little Dremel I bought became my best friend and is a real time saver. The rest was sanded by hand. I used a hand sander to get better results on straight edges.
Next step is to fill all gaps and holes. This is what you have to expect typically:
1) Little bubbles. You'll find them around the throat mouth and at the end of the opening. The rest of the horn is smooth as silk. You can even feel the little steps from the molding tool.
2) Router marks. Easy to fix by filling and/or sanding.
3) Gaps. Be sure to get rid of all sanding dust within the gaps by using a vacuum cleaner. Otherwise the filler won't stick. If you paint over sanding dust filled gaps that big, then there will be dents or even cracks later.
Best, Markus
Here's the first sanded version (80 grid):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
After having to leave all my tools in Germany the little Dremel I bought became my best friend and is a real time saver. The rest was sanded by hand. I used a hand sander to get better results on straight edges.
Next step is to fill all gaps and holes. This is what you have to expect typically:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
1) Little bubbles. You'll find them around the throat mouth and at the end of the opening. The rest of the horn is smooth as silk. You can even feel the little steps from the molding tool.
2) Router marks. Easy to fix by filling and/or sanding.
3) Gaps. Be sure to get rid of all sanding dust within the gaps by using a vacuum cleaner. Otherwise the filler won't stick. If you paint over sanding dust filled gaps that big, then there will be dents or even cracks later.
Best, Markus
Re: Amazon special...or Rockler
I have a 1 1/4" roundover bit that I plan to use with my router table for this project. They aren't cheap bits, but they aren't deal breakers either. If one is going to these lengths to build great speakers, especially considering the money you save in DIY, one owes it to themselves to buy such a bit and do it right.
auplater said:
I have a 1 1/4" roundover bit that I plan to use with my router table for this project. They aren't cheap bits, but they aren't deal breakers either. If one is going to these lengths to build great speakers, especially considering the money you save in DIY, one owes it to themselves to buy such a bit and do it right.
Re: Amazon special...or Rockler
Same here, 1 1/2" roundover on the top with 3/4" one on the bottom. Zero filler required, just prime, sand smooth and then top coat.
auplater said:
Same here, 1 1/2" roundover on the top with 3/4" one on the bottom. Zero filler required, just prime, sand smooth and then top coat.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Markus
Looks good. One tip is that many of the fillers shrink even after a day. This has been a real problem for me. If anyone knows of a fast setting filler that doesn't shrink let me know. I have found that wood filler doesn't work as good as body filler. Bondo is a real pain to use, but it sets quickly and shrinkage is predictable.
Looks good. One tip is that many of the fillers shrink even after a day. This has been a real problem for me. If anyone knows of a fast setting filler that doesn't shrink let me know. I have found that wood filler doesn't work as good as body filler. Bondo is a real pain to use, but it sets quickly and shrinkage is predictable.
Re: Re: Amazon special...or Rockler
Josh - absolutely a good idea. Since the edges are "roughed" out at 1", a routing at 1.25" or 1.5" AFTER assembly would yield a very nice edge. When someone orders an assembled set from me I do the routing after the assembly for a better finish. But thats not possible (feasible) with the kit.
JoshK said:
Josh - absolutely a good idea. Since the edges are "roughed" out at 1", a routing at 1.25" or 1.5" AFTER assembly would yield a very nice edge. When someone orders an assembled set from me I do the routing after the assembly for a better finish. But thats not possible (feasible) with the kit.
Markus,
Just wanted to relay a couple tips I've been given when building enclosures. First on those gaps, I'd open them up a little bit creating a little bit of a v-notch trench to allow better penetration for your filler. Not deep enough to compromise the glued joint at all but enough to allow a little more filler to lay in there. In my limited experience it allows me to achieve a smoother final surface. I actually do this on many of my joints where wood glue might seep out while clamped.
By "hand sander" I assume you mean a store bought sanding block. A little tip is to use a piece of scrap mdf if you have one handy and use a bit of wood glue to paste sandpaper to the scrap block. I recently started doing this and it really helps me to keep things flat. The rubber or foam faced sanding blocks seem to conform to imperfections too much for my use. The MDF sanding block makes it easy to knock down filler perfectly even with the original piece. Just make sure you go easy or you'll alter the contour rather than following it.
Looking great so far. Very nice job on those top corners of the baffle.
Just wanted to relay a couple tips I've been given when building enclosures. First on those gaps, I'd open them up a little bit creating a little bit of a v-notch trench to allow better penetration for your filler. Not deep enough to compromise the glued joint at all but enough to allow a little more filler to lay in there. In my limited experience it allows me to achieve a smoother final surface. I actually do this on many of my joints where wood glue might seep out while clamped.
By "hand sander" I assume you mean a store bought sanding block. A little tip is to use a piece of scrap mdf if you have one handy and use a bit of wood glue to paste sandpaper to the scrap block. I recently started doing this and it really helps me to keep things flat. The rubber or foam faced sanding blocks seem to conform to imperfections too much for my use. The MDF sanding block makes it easy to knock down filler perfectly even with the original piece. Just make sure you go easy or you'll alter the contour rather than following it.
Looking great so far. Very nice job on those top corners of the baffle.
The Nathans will definately need subs. The Summas don't but multiple subs is a big asset.
John VanOmmen (Bateman?) has posted quite a bit about his impressions of his Summas. No one else seems to be willing to withstand the trials of posting on forums.
John VanOmmen (Bateman?) has posted quite a bit about his impressions of his Summas. No one else seems to be willing to withstand the trials of posting on forums.
Where are you guys picking up the larger roundover bits? I've been searching for a 1.25" radius locally and have had no luck. Could I also ask the going rate? I'm seeing $100+ for a 1" locally.
Adam
Try the web, but yes they will be over $100 and require a larger router because they only come in 1/2" collets.
Try the web, but yes they will be over $100 and require a larger router because they only come in 1/2" collets.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-4-r-Roundover-Bit-1-2-Shank/C1192
$38 + shipping. I have quite a few router bits from them. No complaints.
Auplater gave a link to Rockler's offerings. They are a bit more expensive then other web sources I've found. Good bits though.
$38 + shipping. I have quite a few router bits from them. No complaints.
Auplater gave a link to Rockler's offerings. They are a bit more expensive then other web sources I've found. Good bits though.
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