Hi everyone,
My DAM 1121 board is on its way, so it's time to start planning ahead.
My goal is to build a simple DAC, not a streamer. The digital source will be my Nuc via USB.
I plan to use JLSOUNDS's USB board, with its own dedicated power supply.
And from that point on, im not sure in which direction I should go. I went over numerous DAM build threads. At this point, there's so much information that im having a hard time deciding on a course of action.
And about me - while I've built every single device in my system, my understanding of electrical design is very limited. I can solder well and I can follow schematics. I would always prefer to work with a "lego" mindset if possible (assemble ready-made PCBs and connect them).
So where do I need help:
Power supply
I would naturally want to make the best power supply possible. Which power supply board (kit or assembled) and transformer are recommended for the DAM?
Output stage
This part confuses me the most. Is there anything to gain from an active output stage? a tube buffer maybe?
I actually have 2 UTC A-20 transformers from a different project. I thought to experiment with them as an output stage (from the SE output).
Again, any recommendation for a ready-made board, assembled or in kit form, would be highly appreciated.
Board control
I don't plan to use the onboard volume, but I might want to change filters every now and then. Should I consider adding a control screen, or would it be easier to add a USB control input on the back of the device and manage things through my computer?
and finally - everything in between
Alternative clocks, Ian's boards (which I don't actually understand), input selectors, and anything else that can help me get the most out of my DAM board. There's just so much info here that im really struggling to choose a path.
Thank you all for taking the time to read and help out,
Tank out.
My DAM 1121 board is on its way, so it's time to start planning ahead.
My goal is to build a simple DAC, not a streamer. The digital source will be my Nuc via USB.
I plan to use JLSOUNDS's USB board, with its own dedicated power supply.
And from that point on, im not sure in which direction I should go. I went over numerous DAM build threads. At this point, there's so much information that im having a hard time deciding on a course of action.
And about me - while I've built every single device in my system, my understanding of electrical design is very limited. I can solder well and I can follow schematics. I would always prefer to work with a "lego" mindset if possible (assemble ready-made PCBs and connect them).
So where do I need help:
Power supply
I would naturally want to make the best power supply possible. Which power supply board (kit or assembled) and transformer are recommended for the DAM?
Output stage
This part confuses me the most. Is there anything to gain from an active output stage? a tube buffer maybe?
I actually have 2 UTC A-20 transformers from a different project. I thought to experiment with them as an output stage (from the SE output).
Again, any recommendation for a ready-made board, assembled or in kit form, would be highly appreciated.
Board control
I don't plan to use the onboard volume, but I might want to change filters every now and then. Should I consider adding a control screen, or would it be easier to add a USB control input on the back of the device and manage things through my computer?
and finally - everything in between
Alternative clocks, Ian's boards (which I don't actually understand), input selectors, and anything else that can help me get the most out of my DAM board. There's just so much info here that im really struggling to choose a path.
Thank you all for taking the time to read and help out,
Tank out.
Hey, I can only be of little help here but let me try to help anyway.
This is a debate that could probably go on forever. In short: If you are going to drive long cables from your DAM to your preamp or whatever is after the DAM you probably want a buffer. Tube, opamps, transformer or discrete is your choice.
If not then you have your choice of buffered or direct from the resistor ladder. it seems that directly of the ladder has it's SQ benefits. I'm in the midst of collecting parts for my DAM1941 build but I'm going to hook it up for some tests when I have put it on some wood or something to have a safe-ish setup to carry around and connect it to my HiFi system and my studio monitors. I don't like to loosely put stuff on the ground or on a table and hook it up haphazardly. When I do (probably this weekend) I'll test the direct connect vs the opamp buffer (Soekris BUF1961) and opamp roll a bit and I can tell you something about a simple opamp buffer stage vs direct.
Ready made boards or kits are a plenty. maybe get on one of the group buy's and buy a nice pcb or kit. or use TubeCAD's stuff or whatever. This also applies to your power supply situation. There is a lot of way's to power this thing (and other items within your build) so go and do some research. Salas stuff is on groupbuy now and closes soon. or buy something at DIYinHK or whatever. buy something decent.
I have no idea. I think that having a control screen or some kind of control on the unit would be nicer than needing a computer all the time.
the Soekris has it's own FiFo buffer. Alternative clocking or a FiFo buffer before your source might have merit but I think that having Ians FiFo buffer would be overkill before the Soekris but I might be wrong. Having a good i2s stream go in the Soekris is probably a good idea though. The Soekris DAM doesn't take MCLK in keep that in mind.
You mentioned using the JLSOUNDS USB board. Doesn't it also reclock the signol at the XMOS chip? a quick google gave me several results that had 2 oscillators on board. if so a reclocker in between that and the Soekris would be kind of convoluted IMHO.
Input selectors would be kind of important if you want to be able to switch inputs I guess. If you only want to use USB than don't bother I think. Would simplify things a lot.
This is all I can do and I might get a lot of flack for the things I wrote here. But I'm not an expert in any of these things.
Good luck on your project!
This is a debate that could probably go on forever. In short: If you are going to drive long cables from your DAM to your preamp or whatever is after the DAM you probably want a buffer. Tube, opamps, transformer or discrete is your choice.
If not then you have your choice of buffered or direct from the resistor ladder. it seems that directly of the ladder has it's SQ benefits. I'm in the midst of collecting parts for my DAM1941 build but I'm going to hook it up for some tests when I have put it on some wood or something to have a safe-ish setup to carry around and connect it to my HiFi system and my studio monitors. I don't like to loosely put stuff on the ground or on a table and hook it up haphazardly. When I do (probably this weekend) I'll test the direct connect vs the opamp buffer (Soekris BUF1961) and opamp roll a bit and I can tell you something about a simple opamp buffer stage vs direct.
Ready made boards or kits are a plenty. maybe get on one of the group buy's and buy a nice pcb or kit. or use TubeCAD's stuff or whatever. This also applies to your power supply situation. There is a lot of way's to power this thing (and other items within your build) so go and do some research. Salas stuff is on groupbuy now and closes soon. or buy something at DIYinHK or whatever. buy something decent.
I have no idea. I think that having a control screen or some kind of control on the unit would be nicer than needing a computer all the time.
the Soekris has it's own FiFo buffer. Alternative clocking or a FiFo buffer before your source might have merit but I think that having Ians FiFo buffer would be overkill before the Soekris but I might be wrong. Having a good i2s stream go in the Soekris is probably a good idea though. The Soekris DAM doesn't take MCLK in keep that in mind.
You mentioned using the JLSOUNDS USB board. Doesn't it also reclock the signol at the XMOS chip? a quick google gave me several results that had 2 oscillators on board. if so a reclocker in between that and the Soekris would be kind of convoluted IMHO.
Input selectors would be kind of important if you want to be able to switch inputs I guess. If you only want to use USB than don't bother I think. Would simplify things a lot.
This is all I can do and I might get a lot of flack for the things I wrote here. But I'm not an expert in any of these things.
Good luck on your project!
Thank you for the insight Cney! and I would love to know how your build progresses.
After careful reading and research, I decided to connect the JLSOUNDS board directly to the DAM and not include a reclocker in the middle. As Cney said (and many others) - it is redundant.
So now, the layout will look like this:
The DAM board, PSU's and JLSOUNDS boards are already here. Ill be placing an order for some simple EBAY Rcore transformer later today.
I also plan on adding audiozen's control board (if he still sales them).
As for the output stage, I'm very much on the fence. I will start with the regular output for sure. I do want to test my UTC A20 transformers, but I'm concerned about the complexity of connecting them. I know ill need to move the ground resistor from the board to the transformers and I'm not sure if that's a complicated task or not. If someone could give me some insight on this part it would help a lot.
that's it for now!
Tank out.
After careful reading and research, I decided to connect the JLSOUNDS board directly to the DAM and not include a reclocker in the middle. As Cney said (and many others) - it is redundant.
So now, the layout will look like this:
The DAM board, PSU's and JLSOUNDS boards are already here. Ill be placing an order for some simple EBAY Rcore transformer later today.
I also plan on adding audiozen's control board (if he still sales them).
As for the output stage, I'm very much on the fence. I will start with the regular output for sure. I do want to test my UTC A20 transformers, but I'm concerned about the complexity of connecting them. I know ill need to move the ground resistor from the board to the transformers and I'm not sure if that's a complicated task or not. If someone could give me some insight on this part it would help a lot.
that's it for now!
Tank out.
I've never designed a PCB before, but this looks just like the project to try out my hands at something like that! I do have years and years of CAD experience, so I hope ill pick it up quickly enough.
I'm using KiCad and I'm still in the Schematics phase, whish me luck!
I'm using KiCad and I'm still in the Schematics phase, whish me luck!
Hi Sorry, this is my first post, and I´ve only reading and learning here for the past months. Can I ask why do you use two differnt transformers? Is it one for the digital part and the other one for the analog one?
Sorry if it´s a silly question I have to learn a lot, electronics is way off my area of expertise
Sorry if it´s a silly question I have to learn a lot, electronics is way off my area of expertise
Electronics are far from my expertise as well... But yes, I use one transformer for the digital side and one for the analog side.
Ok thank you, that makes sense. We are building very similar DACs. I´m pllaning on using Salas power supplys and amanero usb to i2s converter.
Your thread has been of good help giving another option for power supplies, just in case I can´t use Salas ones, I´m using an ITX pc case as enclosure and maybe I will need something smaller as PSU.
Your thread has been of good help giving another option for power supplies, just in case I can´t use Salas ones, I´m using an ITX pc case as enclosure and maybe I will need something smaller as PSU.
Also not an electronics engineer but it is good practice to have separate transformers or a transformer with separate windings for digital and analog as to keep noise from the digital end out of the analog domain. You could do with one but being that we strive for good SQ in our audio it is better to adhere to this rule.
If using Amanero for USB to I2S, best to perform the clean power modification on it. Otherwise the default is that it is powered from the USB +5v, which can be noisy and increase audible jitter artifacts.
Also, many people have found I2SoverUSB to be of better quality than Amanero. It may cost a bit less too. I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
All the above having been said, don't know that any digital input to DAM1121 DAC will work ideally, given the nature of how DAM1121 clock frequency is servoed.
Also, many people have found I2SoverUSB to be of better quality than Amanero. It may cost a bit less too. I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
All the above having been said, don't know that any digital input to DAM1121 DAC will work ideally, given the nature of how DAM1121 clock frequency is servoed.
Hey Marcw4, thank you for the input.
I am using I2SoverUSB with its own dedicated PSU (2 of them), so no concerns there.
I am using I2SoverUSB with its own dedicated PSU (2 of them), so no concerns there.
So, I went further down the rabbit hole with my attempt at designing a PCB. As I wrote above - It's going to be a motherboard for the DAM and I2SoverUSB. I tried using KiCAD at first but quickly switched to EasyEDA.
So far, my concerns are:
grounding - should I create separate grounds for each board? should I connect everything together to a single ground plane?
Unused connections - Since I won't be using most of the functions these two boards provide me, I need to do something with all the unused connections. The obvious thing (to me) is to just run tracer to alternative pin connection blocks on the motherboard (with identical pinout). Should I just go ahead and do that? can the extra tracers bring in noise?
If someone with PCB design experience jump in and give me some advise or guidance it would be very helpful.
All the best,
Tank out!
So far, my concerns are:
grounding - should I create separate grounds for each board? should I connect everything together to a single ground plane?
Unused connections - Since I won't be using most of the functions these two boards provide me, I need to do something with all the unused connections. The obvious thing (to me) is to just run tracer to alternative pin connection blocks on the motherboard (with identical pinout). Should I just go ahead and do that? can the extra tracers bring in noise?
If someone with PCB design experience jump in and give me some advise or guidance it would be very helpful.
All the best,
Tank out!
Thank you. I will look into I2SoverUSB it has good price and ships from EU, so it´s an easy buy.
This thread it´s getting more interesting by the minute I can´t help you with this Tankpopper, but keep it up!
Everything is probably wrong about this, but im learning!
I still have no idea how to approach the ground plane. There are at least 4 different grounds to manage and I'm not sure if they should be separated or connected in some way.
Grounding and Shielding for your DIY Audio Projects
I read a couple of weeks ago this article about managing grounds and how to avoid ground loops. I think it might be usefull to what you are doing right now
I read a couple of weeks ago this article about managing grounds and how to avoid ground loops. I think it might be usefull to what you are doing right now
Depends. What are each of the grounds, signal grounds (what signals), power grounds, etc.? Also depends on if the grounds connect to external circuitry such as power supplies, other audio devices, etc. You have to think about where ground currents are going to flow and what effects that might have on circuit performance.
Hi Tankpopper. IMO you are way over-complicating this and making a rod for your own back. The connections between the modules are really quite simple and I recommend you just take the easy route and get the DAC up and running - that'll give you a perspective on how much more time/effort/money you might want to invest in developing it further.
I've been pre-occupied for the last couple of weeks but I'll dig out the gerber files for the small JLSounds/DAM1121 interface/configuration boards that I promised you over the weekend.
I've been pre-occupied for the last couple of weeks but I'll dig out the gerber files for the small JLSounds/DAM1121 interface/configuration boards that I promised you over the weekend.
Thanks nautibuoy. I agree that would be a better starting point for me. I don't want to abandon the idea of a full PCB, but I should revisit it after the DAC is up and running.