@zero: I plan to use this kind of fader: The Innofader - Home
At least for the crossfader anyways. It might not be cost effective to use that for the channel fader too.
As for building, I've built numerous guitar effects pedals before, upwards of about 40-50. I know not the same thing as this, but it's similar! I've built on everything from vero board, perf board, breadboards, premade pcb's as well as pcb's I've designed and etched myself. I've built a few simple solid state amps and other electronics as well.
@nigelwright: thanks for the tip. I'm not sure I want to use digital pots, but I am definitely going to be really careful in designing the grounding scheme!
At least for the crossfader anyways. It might not be cost effective to use that for the channel fader too.
As for building, I've built numerous guitar effects pedals before, upwards of about 40-50. I know not the same thing as this, but it's similar! I've built on everything from vero board, perf board, breadboards, premade pcb's as well as pcb's I've designed and etched myself. I've built a few simple solid state amps and other electronics as well.
@nigelwright: thanks for the tip. I'm not sure I want to use digital pots, but I am definitely going to be really careful in designing the grounding scheme!
Yeah the Innofader might be good for the Xfader. But as you say, not cost effective as channel faders 😱 And anyway, nearly all the abuse will be on the Xfader. Have you established yet, if it will work Directly with the THAT VCA ? If not, it would be best to email them for advice Let me know the outcome.
Interesting that on their www, they mention the VCA response delay i posted about earlier 😉 Not enough to worry about, but it does happen !
As you've built 40-50 projects etc before, you should be fine with this 🙂
I've also built plenty of things on vero board. Nothing wrong with it as such. As you've already designed and etched PCB's, you have a head start.
What are you thinking of tackling first ?
Interesting that on their www, they mention the VCA response delay i posted about earlier 😉 Not enough to worry about, but it does happen !
As you've built 40-50 projects etc before, you should be fine with this 🙂
I've also built plenty of things on vero board. Nothing wrong with it as such. As you've already designed and etched PCB's, you have a head start.
What are you thinking of tackling first ?
I have not emailed them yet, but I heard they have a very good customer service department so I'll drop them an email soon to find out!
In terms of what I want to tackle first, I plan to start from the top and really dig into the circuits and then work on designing the PCB's.
Quick question, those ICs that you linked for VCA and such....the minimum order seems to be 100 for most of the ICs listed. Any sources with smaller order requirements?
In terms of what I want to tackle first, I plan to start from the top and really dig into the circuits and then work on designing the PCB's.
Quick question, those ICs that you linked for VCA and such....the minimum order seems to be 100 for most of the ICs listed. Any sources with smaller order requirements?
Good
OK
😀 That's because they only supply to distributors/manufactures etc in bulk. I only gave the links so you could download the official data PDF's 😉
I don't know where you're located, but i took a guess @ the USA ?
Here's just 2 2180AL08-U THAT | Mouser They are in the USA Mouser Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor too.
Special Function | Newark | Results
Check the MicPre's whilst you're looking Audio Control & Processing | Newark | Results
Just use their SEARCH functions to locate the other IC's etc etc. Note that there are various grades & mounting options, so choose Carefully !
Nice project.
Crossfader: You have a decision here. If you plan on phasing/flanging, center span should be 50%. That way, output remains constant during combing.
When slow fade using different tunes, you are better off with 70%, so the midspan has constant signal power.
Switchable would be nice, just don't switch while crossfade is midspan.
I used crossfading for a year or so, but eventually switched away from it. For the as built mixer at the club, I ran the system with the crossfade centered always, and used the separate channel levels to control mix. The reason, is there were many mixes where I spotted the second song in from cue point HOT. Kept first song going, but popped the vinyl in at 150 or 200% levels. It's not something you would want to swipe the fader simultanously with.
As to headphones: Always use two channel, and always use full ear enclosure headphones for two reasons. First, there will be venues where the bass delay will throw off your timing. I had a small (150 or so person) venue where a half wall delayed the drum about 50 to 100 milliseconds, so any attempt with one cup produced obvious double beat. Luckily, I had the two cup headphones to use.
Second, being able to hear in later life is a good thing..
As you progress, you will find a preference for cue and program siding. I prefer cue on right, program on left. Don't be one of those dj's with the head tipped to one side on a single ear cup, I hate that look...quasimoto...and, you have to level the cue to balance external program intensity. Again, hearing loss.
After a time, 6 months or so, you may find that you can actually turn program off in the phones, and use cue at very low levels. To me, this was great, as I was spinning 6 days a week 5 hours a day. I felt bad for the waitresses..
Make cue and program feed to the phones mono signals. Drum is not always what you cue to, and if what you cue to is only one channel, chances are it won't be the correct one.
Layout: It's great having lots of input possibilities, but make sure you organize the controls right/left consistent with the physical layout of the tables. I ran a numark for a while with two tables and a denon dual cd player, and occasionally lost track of which source was running program because the sources were arranged based on the mixer's phono inputs, 1 left phono, 2 right phono, 3 left cd, 4 right cd. If I was running right table and left cd, the sides were reversed. Lifting the program tonearm is definitely embarrasing..
I built a mixer with each side selectable all inputs.
Through the years, I made the mixer front panel simpler and simpler..
If you build a coffin and custom the mixer in between the tables, you will hit the left tonearm....trust me, it sounds like lightning hit the building when you're running 3 or 4 kilowatts of folded horn bass..
Good luck.. Keep us abreast of your progress.
jn
Ah, edit: For output to the power amp, provide yourself the option of left and right balanced, and an XLR configured as stereo unbalanced. For all small gigs where I was running one power amp, I would use a simple mike cord to connect mixer to amp rack. One cord for audio, one cord for power to the mixer/tables. I always ran the power cord with the unbalanced stereo xlr wire. It made setup so easy, that interconnect was about 2 minutes. Don't worry about crosstalk with a stereo signal in a mike cable, your audience is drunk anyway... And always run the mixer/tables from the same wall outlet as the power amps. I installed a duplex outlet on the back of the amp rack. If you go high power and need multiple duplex outlets with several breakers, go balanced with two cables.
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Hey everyone,
Some really great suggestions here. I've been MIA for a bit because I have some major exams coming up, but hopefully I will have more time to dive into this after that.
@Zero: I'm located in Canada so ordering from Mouser won't be too much of an issue, methinks.
@snrjrdn: I will definitely do my best to document everything once the build process gets rolling.
@jneutron:
I'll look into what you suggested for the crossfader. My hope is to have a choice between a slow fade and a really fast one, as I want to learn how to scratch.
For headphones, my preference has always been to have the headphones on my head, but in case I need to hear anything in just one ear, slide the headphone cup off the other ear and let it rest on the side of my head. Slightly less goofy looking, I suppose.
Excellent point about making my signals feeding headphones mono, this never even occured to me (although my headphones are switchable between mono and stereo, so maybe this is why that never crossed my mind). Definitely implementing this.
I don't have much of an issue with the left tonearm because I orient my decks vertically, battle style. Mainly because of space constraints, and because they feel more comfortable.
I will make sure I put lots of thought into making a logical and well planned design and layout. Like I've mentioned before, I want to make it simple but also have very good sound.
Lastly, good suggestion on including a single xlr stereo unbalanced jack available. Would you also suggest using TRS for my stereo balanced outputs as oppose to XLR? Would probably save space on the back panel, but I find XLRs to be heartier.
Some really great suggestions here. I've been MIA for a bit because I have some major exams coming up, but hopefully I will have more time to dive into this after that.
@Zero: I'm located in Canada so ordering from Mouser won't be too much of an issue, methinks.
@snrjrdn: I will definitely do my best to document everything once the build process gets rolling.
@jneutron:
I'll look into what you suggested for the crossfader. My hope is to have a choice between a slow fade and a really fast one, as I want to learn how to scratch.
For headphones, my preference has always been to have the headphones on my head, but in case I need to hear anything in just one ear, slide the headphone cup off the other ear and let it rest on the side of my head. Slightly less goofy looking, I suppose.
Excellent point about making my signals feeding headphones mono, this never even occured to me (although my headphones are switchable between mono and stereo, so maybe this is why that never crossed my mind). Definitely implementing this.
I don't have much of an issue with the left tonearm because I orient my decks vertically, battle style. Mainly because of space constraints, and because they feel more comfortable.
I will make sure I put lots of thought into making a logical and well planned design and layout. Like I've mentioned before, I want to make it simple but also have very good sound.
Lastly, good suggestion on including a single xlr stereo unbalanced jack available. Would you also suggest using TRS for my stereo balanced outputs as oppose to XLR? Would probably save space on the back panel, but I find XLRs to be heartier.
@ liddokun
Canada = OK
Yeah jneutron makes some good points !
Headphones 🙂
wall outlet 🙂
stereo balanced outputs 🙂
All the best with your exams, & keep us posted.
Canada = OK
Yeah jneutron makes some good points !
Headphones 🙂
wall outlet 🙂
stereo balanced outputs 🙂
All the best with your exams, & keep us posted.
If you don't you will probably get hum problems.
The power supply charging pulses will modulate the audio ground and cause hum.
Only join the audio ground and power ground at the pcb edge connector.
@ liddokun
Jeepers ! It "appeared" you had abandend the project, as we hadn't heard from you in some time.
Anyway, it looks like your back on with it 🙂 What stage are you @ right now ?
Grounding/Earthing is a potential nightmare for the unwary, & even with the best circuits/components, if done incorrectly will give poor performance, or @ best less, than what it could be.
Consider each stage as if they were on seperate PCB's. Don't link the grounds to each other in turn, instead take a ground wire from each to a central Audio Star Point, which could be on the PCB, & then take this to the Power Supply SP off board.
Jeepers ! It "appeared" you had abandend the project, as we hadn't heard from you in some time.
Anyway, it looks like your back on with it 🙂 What stage are you @ right now ?
Grounding/Earthing is a potential nightmare for the unwary, & even with the best circuits/components, if done incorrectly will give poor performance, or @ best less, than what it could be.
Consider each stage as if they were on seperate PCB's. Don't link the grounds to each other in turn, instead take a ground wire from each to a central Audio Star Point, which could be on the PCB, & then take this to the Power Supply SP off board.
There will be many periods of inactivity from me. I'm attempting to to complete this project over a long span of time because of how busy I am with nursing! So bear with me!
I'm starting to look into designing the PCBs.
I'm starting to look into designing the PCBs.
@Zero
Star grounding scheme then; When I design the boards, I'll just have a single trace used for ground that goes to the offboard psu board. That in turn get's ground to chassis?
Star grounding scheme then; When I design the boards, I'll just have a single trace used for ground that goes to the offboard psu board. That in turn get's ground to chassis?
Consider looking at a Bozak or URIE 1620 mixer. the URIE is an updated clone of the Bozak. Good opamps, metal films, and plastic caps in 1982. All rotary pots. Find an old one and you have the perfect chassis.
I considered going off a Bozak or URIE originally, but I'm leaning towards more of a Vestax PMC05 type of chassis, or if I can fit it all in, a slimmer chassis. The rotary faders would be awesome for long smooth mixes but I want the slide faders primarily for learning to scratch.
Perhaps my next project will be to recreate a Bozak!
Yes
Yes
Ideally yes, because True ground only exists @ the source/s ! Think about how ALL the other gear will be grounded/earthed. If they don't have Ground Lifts you'll get hum and noise injected into the signals, due to earth loops !
I would love a modern bozak. Replace the phono cards with something like a paradise/vsps/xono and you would have a killer mixer.
Allen & Heath and Vestax both made high dollar modern DJ mixers but at 5-6k they are way out of anything I would pay.
Allen & Heath and Vestax both made high dollar modern DJ mixers but at 5-6k they are way out of anything I would pay.
Here is a service manual for Ecler Nuo 2.0 with complete schematics and also the layout of the top layers with the assembly screen plus the BOM:
Ecler Nuo 2.0 Service Manual
The mixer is currently sold and is sounding pretty good.
You can also have a look on the page of Rane.
There are schematics for their obsolete products like the Empath for example.
Hmm, I'm also planning a similar project but with a different approach.
Ecler Nuo 2.0 Service Manual
The mixer is currently sold and is sounding pretty good.
You can also have a look on the page of Rane.
There are schematics for their obsolete products like the Empath for example.
Hmm, I'm also planning a similar project but with a different approach.
I'm starting to revisit this again, after taking some time off to focus on my career.
I've decided maybe I should start by building a Bozak/Urei style rotary mixer first, then use that as the building blocks for a scratch mixer (omission of the crossfader and need for VCA controls gives me time to learn the audio bits first).
Zero, wondering if you could help me wrap my head around the signal flow here.
Project 06 for phono, feeding into Project 97 for preamps.
From here, everything would be summed, and sent to booth output, master output.
If I can find a decent circuit for a DJ isolator, I might consider putting this in as well.
How will the cueing section work? Tap each channel post eq and send to a volume pot that feeds the master headphone control?
Do I need gain stages between each? Buffers?
I've decided maybe I should start by building a Bozak/Urei style rotary mixer first, then use that as the building blocks for a scratch mixer (omission of the crossfader and need for VCA controls gives me time to learn the audio bits first).
Zero, wondering if you could help me wrap my head around the signal flow here.
Project 06 for phono, feeding into Project 97 for preamps.
From here, everything would be summed, and sent to booth output, master output.
If I can find a decent circuit for a DJ isolator, I might consider putting this in as well.
How will the cueing section work? Tap each channel post eq and send to a volume pot that feeds the master headphone control?
Do I need gain stages between each? Buffers?
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