Another option: a coaxial speaker. Not the crap they sell for autosound. I just got a pair of BMS 8" (about 7x your budget) and they sound wonderful, even in a crap coroplast box and homemade horn. But many less expensive, and perhaps as good, coaxials can be found. They are sold in anything from 5" to 15" (woofer); this is the BMS range. Note you would need a crossover (they usually sell one), unless you can actively EQ your speakers. Advantages: time-aligned, can be "point source," for excellent imaging. Downside: probably not much bass below about 100 Hz.
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Great point! Something like this would fit your budget:
Volt-6 LX DIY Sound Group
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I make a cart on part-express and I have 164,52$ for full BOM without wood
I found the kit here
Classix II Kit Pr
at 155$ but I didn't understand if it contains the wood.
Sometimes we feel we are wasting our breath here at diyaudio.com. 😕
Let me say it again. A B&O P30 wallmounter is entirely different from a standmounter like the regular Classix II.
A wallmounter needs far less bass bafflestep boost than a standmounter. Paul Carmody's Classix II will sound terrible and overly bassy wall mounted. It's just how it works. 🙂
Let me say it again. A B&O P30 wallmounter is entirely different from a standmounter like the regular Classix II.
A wallmounter needs far less bass bafflestep boost than a standmounter. Paul Carmody's Classix II will sound terrible and overly bassy wall mounted. It's just how it works. 🙂
Ok I found all components of Classix II at a good price on loudspeakerfreaks.com
I have some doubts about crossover components.
What tolerance for capacitors and resistor?
About inductance, what type of copper?
About resistor, wirewound are ceramic resistor?
because I didn't find 4 and 6 ohm, I can use 12 ohm in parallel?
A part speaker and crossover what else should I buy?
I have some doubts about crossover components.
What tolerance for capacitors and resistor?
About inductance, what type of copper?
About resistor, wirewound are ceramic resistor?
because I didn't find 4 and 6 ohm, I can use 12 ohm in parallel?
A part speaker and crossover what else should I buy?
Hi all
during last days I worked on a review of Classix II.
I took some measurements and set the maximum size of box:
- Max height 34 cm
- Max depth 25 cm
Because these limits, I have to exclude classix II (both design).
So I tryed to redesign with some difference.
First of all I select (another time) following components:
1 DC160-4 (this model has a better behaviour at low frequences)
1 DC25T-8 (it seems match well with woofer)
Using Passive crossover designer 7 I calculate crossover circuit component values (I use same schemas of classix II).
Now I'd like to design the box and I have some doubts:
1. I found calculator only for woofer. This means that I have to design box only about woofer? How can I take into account tweeter?
2. If I understood well, after I design the box I have a different impedence of woofer. So I have to change value of crossover components?
regards
during last days I worked on a review of Classix II.
I took some measurements and set the maximum size of box:
- Max height 34 cm
- Max depth 25 cm
Because these limits, I have to exclude classix II (both design).
So I tryed to redesign with some difference.
First of all I select (another time) following components:
1 DC160-4 (this model has a better behaviour at low frequences)
1 DC25T-8 (it seems match well with woofer)
Using Passive crossover designer 7 I calculate crossover circuit component values (I use same schemas of classix II).
Now I'd like to design the box and I have some doubts:
1. I found calculator only for woofer. This means that I have to design box only about woofer? How can I take into account tweeter?
2. If I understood well, after I design the box I have a different impedence of woofer. So I have to change value of crossover components?
regards
Ohh I wrote a long reply but it disappeared after re-logging !
I said : those B&O are horrible ! But Steve have said something to consider...
Then I argumented about electrical and mechanical finding their way into acoustical ( impedance, in this case ) and that loading a cone ...
Then about using preferably 8 Ω drivers and not 4 Ω.
Also to spend some 20-30 € more to have some die cast metal basket and some other material than paper for the cone. Also to go for 5 " drivers.
And...to go with 2nd order for both wf and tw...but maybe just 1 st order, just an inductor if the woofer is polypropilene.
Lastly, the tweeter needs no loading since it is a closed ( acoustical ) circuit on the back -I prefer to keep it outside of the box so you can change the offset easy when checking the final sound
I said : those B&O are horrible ! But Steve have said something to consider...
Then I argumented about electrical and mechanical finding their way into acoustical ( impedance, in this case ) and that loading a cone ...
Then about using preferably 8 Ω drivers and not 4 Ω.
Also to spend some 20-30 € more to have some die cast metal basket and some other material than paper for the cone. Also to go for 5 " drivers.
And...to go with 2nd order for both wf and tw...but maybe just 1 st order, just an inductor if the woofer is polypropilene.
Lastly, the tweeter needs no loading since it is a closed ( acoustical ) circuit on the back -I prefer to keep it outside of the box so you can change the offset easy when checking the final sound
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Steve, those B&O P30 are horrible ! How can you put a reflecting surface at 10 cm from the cone ? You kill it !
I do get a bit tired of explaining why I like any particular design. 🙂
Let's look at the tried and tested B&O P30:
This is a slim wallmounter. Being wallmounted, it doesn't need huge 6dB bafflestep boost. Anyone who doesn't understand that, please leave the room now. 😀
TBH, we don't often do wallmounted these days. But it's an interesting idea.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-25.html#post4428857
Let's look at the tried and tested B&O P30:
This is a slim wallmounter. Being wallmounted, it doesn't need huge 6dB bafflestep boost. Anyone who doesn't understand that, please leave the room now. 😀
TBH, we don't often do wallmounted these days. But it's an interesting idea.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-25.html#post4428857
You can construct the Classix II in a slightly different shaped box that will fit your shelf and still have ~15liters of open volume. Just make the cabinet wider(~26-27cm), and put the port on the side board. Outside toward walls and not toward center soundstage. A bottom slot port on the front baffle might also fit if you (woofer and or top_box) overlap (or trim down) the tweeter faceplate. Same front area as tube, same length as tube. The 8-ohm woofer used in the Classix is probably a better match to your small amplifier than the 4-ohm you are considering.
For your against-wall placement, you can run a few XSIM simulations and experiment with changes to the woofer Xover circuit...smaller inductor....series resistor...
- Max height 34 cm --This is high enough to stack 6.5" woofer + 4" faceplate tweeter, using 0.75" MDF
- Max depth 25 cm --
--width of 26cm or greater produces >15liter internal volume. (0.5cuft)
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Yes, this is my idea. But I had a doubt about volume constraint. Now I'm sure.
I will think about 4 ohm and 8ohm woofer.
What I have not yet figured out is how to take into account of the box in the crossover calculations...
You don't have to knock your head against a wall
Well, before...maybe after 😛
I think that it's related to the fact on how the SPL is calculated:
the software uses and applyes the fundamentals of acoustic, so it's
SPL Vs solid angle radiation, which implies that when you set the driver on a flat baffle the resulting acoustic power is determined by how much surface surrounds the speaker. Then there is the rigid piston region which takes into account the total area of the membrane, but it diminuishes when it exits from pistonic working operation ( the center only emits, the surrounding cannot follow the rapid movement )
And so on...
😱
Well, before...maybe after 😛
I think that it's related to the fact on how the SPL is calculated:
the software uses and applyes the fundamentals of acoustic, so it's
SPL Vs solid angle radiation, which implies that when you set the driver on a flat baffle the resulting acoustic power is determined by how much surface surrounds the speaker. Then there is the rigid piston region which takes into account the total area of the membrane, but it diminuishes when it exits from pistonic working operation ( the center only emits, the surrounding cannot follow the rapid movement )
And so on...
😱
1) For the tweeter, the crossover frequency is ~2,000Hz which is a ~6.7" wavelength. Hence, maintaining "similar" tweeter distances from the top+right+left edges will mimic the designer's SPL measurements. The simple crossover only offers a "LOOSE" curve fit, so small box changes(1-2 inches) will not noticably change the basic high frequency sound. The bottom length is beyond 6.7", and hence beyond the tweeter crossover control.
2) Several posters have commented on how putting the speaker against(near) the rear wall will change the bass balance and suggested you invest in some modeling(room and Xover), including simulating crossover variations which can reduce low bass.
3) A few posters have commented on how putting the speaker 2.2m high will require some attention to down-tilt to aim the tweeter to the listener's ear height. Some recording studios which high-mount monitors use a tweeter horn/waveguide to direct highs to the listener. The JBL LSR 305 monitor is a low cost example.
FIRST TEST: put the speakers at ear level, about 3-ft away from the walls to experience the "ideal" soundstage. Take measurements.
SECOND TEST: put the speakers at 2.2m against the rear wall and take measurements. Post data with your listening observations for expert suggestions.
For $155/pair the Classix II gets positive reviews. I suspect you would need to spend about $300/pair for the next step-up improvement. (SBAcoustics Mandolin) or a tweeter waveguide design.
Well...
I'm tinking about this solution and I make following calculations.
External dimension will be l x w x d = 30 x 34 x 24, while internal dimension will be 26 x 30 x 20 => 15,6 liters. Material will be MDF 3/4"
I'm supposing to put woofer and tweeter at the center of front side at the same distance (starting from top) of original design (rear ported).
I have some doubt about the port position. Can I put it on the back side considering that speaker will be very close to wall (about 1 cm)?
Or it should be better to put it on left side for right speaker and right side for left speaker?
just a question. I undestand that classix II has SPL equal to
84db and impedence of 6ohm. Is it correct?
Is there a project similar to classix II but with higher sensitivity?
84db and impedence of 6ohm. Is it correct?
Is there a project similar to classix II but with higher sensitivity?
Fusion-6 DIY Sound Group
Pro Woofer + Waveguide Tweeter, 89dB
Usually the tradeoff with woofers is efficiency vs. low tuning, so this won't dig as deep as the Dayton, but it is louder. With the wall placement the reduced LF could be an asset.
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