I just wanted to highlight an issue I run into whenever I think about doing a non-beginner DIYAudio build, and gently suggest that maybe a process could be developed to rectify the issue. I would offer to help with this, but the whole problem is that the people who could help, probably aren't aware of the problem at all, and those who are aware, don't yet know enough to assist.
Let me explain.
I've built a few kits now, from various vendors, varying in complexity but all fairly hand-holdy in nature. A Bottlehead Crack, a Whammy, a CMOY, two ACAs, a Bottlehead S.E.X, and a Sangaku. Not a lot of guesswork for any of those. Nothing more complex. This is because, while my soldering is pretty decent now, I don't have the technical know how to 'wing it' yet, nor do I have the more expensive tools to aid in doing that (no scope, no variac, etc.). There seems to be this massive gulf between simple kits that tell you how to do everything (ACA, Whammy, etc.), and the serious business involving BYO mains power supply and so forth (any of the bigger power amps, for example).
This is okay, as I figure there are guides for the individual bits that make up these projects (soft start, speaker protection, PSU, etc) - surely I can piece these together...
And this is where I run into trouble - the build guides are a bit of a mess.
Now, I understand that everyone making these guides is volunteering their time, and doing their best, and they all have lives. And I understand that the forum exists, but the roadblock I keep running into goes a bit like this:
I honestly believe that if the build guides and BoMs underwent some kind of once-a-year maintenance (check the BoM and amend as necessary, aggregate all forum addenda and add it to the guide, etc.), it would be a lot easier for eager but inexperienced people like myself to have a crack and learn something. As it is, it feels like it's just the same experienced people in the forums building out these kits, and they don't need the build guides, or can fill in the gaps unassisted, so the build guides are left untended.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Please be kind - it's just a gentle, well-meaning nudge.
Let me explain.
I've built a few kits now, from various vendors, varying in complexity but all fairly hand-holdy in nature. A Bottlehead Crack, a Whammy, a CMOY, two ACAs, a Bottlehead S.E.X, and a Sangaku. Not a lot of guesswork for any of those. Nothing more complex. This is because, while my soldering is pretty decent now, I don't have the technical know how to 'wing it' yet, nor do I have the more expensive tools to aid in doing that (no scope, no variac, etc.). There seems to be this massive gulf between simple kits that tell you how to do everything (ACA, Whammy, etc.), and the serious business involving BYO mains power supply and so forth (any of the bigger power amps, for example).
This is okay, as I figure there are guides for the individual bits that make up these projects (soft start, speaker protection, PSU, etc) - surely I can piece these together...
And this is where I run into trouble - the build guides are a bit of a mess.
Now, I understand that everyone making these guides is volunteering their time, and doing their best, and they all have lives. And I understand that the forum exists, but the roadblock I keep running into goes a bit like this:
- I decide to build a power amp
- I find the build guide is fairly detailed up to a point, but unfinished, or anywhere up to 10 years and 3 versions out of date, and the BoM is for a completely different version of the board
- I go to the forum and search and wade through the relevant discussion thread that contains some useful info, but also hundreds of pages of conversation, bickering, off-topic stuff, and weird modifications that are cool but only further confuse the issue
- I know I need to build a power supply, and that build guide is sort of up to date, but doesn't go into much detail on how to link it up with the other boards I'm building, assumes knowledge I don't possess, and it's also written for a 120vac audience and I'm in a 230vac country and can't quite suss out how to modify the instructions (and BoM) to suit
- I go to the forum again and find a few pictures that suggest certain things, but no hard info
- I also find that people say the soft start and speaker protection boards are important, so I look into those
- I find that the relays for the soft start are no longer made (with no obvious replacement), that the BOM has not been updated in years, that I need an additional transformer to run the board, that maybe it's not going to work for this project anyway, and that there are many custom solutions that others are happy with, but I would have no idea how to build those myself
- I get a vague sense of how these things link up, but again, nothing concrete
- I look at the enormity of the things I don't know, the potential risk posed by my ignorance, and I give up
I honestly believe that if the build guides and BoMs underwent some kind of once-a-year maintenance (check the BoM and amend as necessary, aggregate all forum addenda and add it to the guide, etc.), it would be a lot easier for eager but inexperienced people like myself to have a crack and learn something. As it is, it feels like it's just the same experienced people in the forums building out these kits, and they don't need the build guides, or can fill in the gaps unassisted, so the build guides are left untended.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Please be kind - it's just a gentle, well-meaning nudge.
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Your thoughts are welcome, and heard. The gulf you describe is being addressed as we type... and I think you'll be chuffed to see what solutions are going to be rolled out in the very near future to address the problems you describe. Which I think are primarily the gulf between beginner and expert levels, the maintenance of guides and BOMs and ways for members like yourself to "get involved", and a solution to having to wade through thousands of posts to find essential information.
I'm extremely happy to hear that - if it helps me build a power amp of more that 15w a side without blowing myself up, I'm going to be well beyond chuffed.
Looking forward to it!
It would be great to push the guides to GitHub so humans can file issues and recommend fixes to the guides.
If there is an option for the forums to rates posts as on-topic, off topic, clone or errata that would help prune the fat. A better like-button or rate-button for each comment in a thread
I end up printing the thread, cancel the print, just so I can search the 1000s of posts
If there is an option for the forums to rates posts as on-topic, off topic, clone or errata that would help prune the fat. A better like-button or rate-button for each comment in a thread
I end up printing the thread, cancel the print, just so I can search the 1000s of posts
While I don't have any experience with GitHub, I feel the gist of what you're saying. Could be a good way to go. I suppose the issues there are:
1) making sure it doesn't descend into such a level of pedantry that it becomes too daunting for a newcomer because the instructions get too bogged down in minutiae that ultimately don't matter
2) that it doesn't result in petty infighting due to equally valid but mutually exclusive methods being put forward by more experienced folks who simply do things differently
I'm not sure about the ratings on the forum posts though - runs the risk of having grumpy people downvoting and therefore discouraging the more basic questions.
One thing I will say is that a system more like a wiki might help. For example, rather than having each power amp guide go over how to wire a transformer and power supply in varying levels of detail and usefulness, it should just say 'Wire Your Transformer and Power Supply', with a link to a general article specifically on the ins and outs of that particular task. If you want to add a soft start or a speaker protection board to a build, it should link to articles specifically on that at the relevant stage in the build, but with specific notes relevant to that build either side of that link. If it says 'mount the MOSFET and heatsink to the board', it should link to an article on the proper way to do this (i.e. tightening and soldering the MOSFET after the heatsink is soldered in place). These articles should also have sections on what is actually going on with the components and circuit, and why, so that you can choose to read if you want to understand exactly what it is you're putting together.
1) making sure it doesn't descend into such a level of pedantry that it becomes too daunting for a newcomer because the instructions get too bogged down in minutiae that ultimately don't matter
2) that it doesn't result in petty infighting due to equally valid but mutually exclusive methods being put forward by more experienced folks who simply do things differently
I'm not sure about the ratings on the forum posts though - runs the risk of having grumpy people downvoting and therefore discouraging the more basic questions.
One thing I will say is that a system more like a wiki might help. For example, rather than having each power amp guide go over how to wire a transformer and power supply in varying levels of detail and usefulness, it should just say 'Wire Your Transformer and Power Supply', with a link to a general article specifically on the ins and outs of that particular task. If you want to add a soft start or a speaker protection board to a build, it should link to articles specifically on that at the relevant stage in the build, but with specific notes relevant to that build either side of that link. If it says 'mount the MOSFET and heatsink to the board', it should link to an article on the proper way to do this (i.e. tightening and soldering the MOSFET after the heatsink is soldered in place). These articles should also have sections on what is actually going on with the components and circuit, and why, so that you can choose to read if you want to understand exactly what it is you're putting together.
I think marking a post as errata, on-topic and maybe as a debug post would be a good start for the forums. And that could be as simple as a vote button and a way to filter posts.
Github can be as simple as creating an account and filing an issue to update the text or image. Additionally more advanced users can submit the actual changes to be merged. This would mostly be written as a “markdown” document which is a lot like wiki editing. Would also be a good location upload and maintain BOMs and Gerber files if available.
Using ACA as an example you can branch version 1.5, 1.6 and 1.8 so updates can be made to each branch.
Of course GitHub is not for debugging someone’s build forums I think would be a better place for that. But those lessons learned debugging dome’s issue could be captured still.
Github can be as simple as creating an account and filing an issue to update the text or image. Additionally more advanced users can submit the actual changes to be merged. This would mostly be written as a “markdown” document which is a lot like wiki editing. Would also be a good location upload and maintain BOMs and Gerber files if available.
Using ACA as an example you can branch version 1.5, 1.6 and 1.8 so updates can be made to each branch.
Of course GitHub is not for debugging someone’s build forums I think would be a better place for that. But those lessons learned debugging dome’s issue could be captured still.
Thanks Marking of posts on/off-topic or signal/noise has always been planned direction, and helping with the theme of being able to find the useful nuggets of information in a multi-thousand-post thread.
Being able to post corrections to build guides is a good idea. The previous wiki demonstrated what happens when you don't have strong guidelines or editors (ie: you end up with an unorganized mess). A balance will be found.
Marking of posts on/off-topic or signal/noise has always been planned direction, and helping with the theme of being able to find the useful nuggets of information in a multi-thousand-post thread.Being able to post corrections to build guides is a good idea. The previous wiki demonstrated what happens when you don't have strong guidelines or editors (ie: you end up with an unorganized mess). A balance will be found.