Breakin question

[silverhairbp]

I'm working with a pair of Alpair 10.2s. Mark's breakin recommendations call for 100 hours of low level music followed by gradually increasing the level until it reaches normal listening levels.

I'm currently about 72 hours into the breakin using the Telarc Vivaldi Four Seasons CD on continuous play (boy, is THAT exciting or what) at a low level not really audible if there's any other noise it the room. The drivers are NOT baffled, just sitting face-up on top of their cardboard boxes.

In a day and a half or so, I plan to change to a different CD, Bach Harpsichord Concertos (more bass and transients) and continue the breakin at a little louder level for a couple of days. I'll then change to something with a little more bass and increase the level for a few more days.

I'm patient. Plus, I'm a little behind schedule on constructing their enclosures.

My questions start with how long does it really take for "full" breakin? Is there a risk of damage since they are not enclosed? Is this breakin plan overkill? How long until I can expect best performance?

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Richard Ellis]

No, no, no..........don't run your driver un-loaded other than the low-levels your doing now.
Remember, your driver either sealed or ported...mainly ported, as it approaches Fs & starts to "ring"..... the lack of enclosure will ram it past Xmax.
On one occasion (I don't do it anymore since)........I had a pair of Minimus 7 speakers & I decided to remove a driver as it was playing a decent volume.
The immediate lack of "acoustic suspension" had the driver banging against the 'stops', I was so startled at the "noise". What was once pleasant was now an angry growling sound....I almost dropped the driver, it was so nasty sounding.
Driver loading is the same.....free-air driven can easily whack-up the guts of our pride & joys...in a heart-beat.........especially these drivers which are typically just a few millimeters worth of Xmax.

________________________________________________________Rick......

 

[Richard Ellis]

I would bet 'Mark' has a break-in procedure for his particular drivers.


______________________________________________________Rick..........

 

[silverhairbp]

I would bet 'Mark' has a break-in procedure for his particular drivers.


______________________________________________________Rick..........

Yes. I noted them in my original post. Here is the procedure from the 10.2 data sheet:

"For the first 100 hours, operate them at very low volumes. After this period, gradually increase the volume to a normal listening level. If you see the cone of the speakers making large movements, immediately turn the volume down."

My questions remain: How long does it really take for full breakin? Is this plan overkill? How long of a breakin before I can expect full performance?

 

[zman01]

silverhairbp,

What I have picked up from a number of discussions on break-in of MA Alpair drivers is:

1. Recommended music for initial period (100 hours?) should be of non-repetitive structures - i.e. soft jazz, vocal, acoustic, instrumentals without deep bass. Stuff like techno, pop, or rock with repetitive bass lines not recommended by Mark.

2. Volume levels should be "low" - it should be audible, but the cones should not move. Too low volumes (barely audible) is not likely to achive break-in.

3. After intital period mark advises introduction of some music with some rhythm/bass (but not rock/metal stuff )

4. Slowly increase the volume as the drivers get more hours on them - again nothing "loud"

5. For larger drivers (Alp 10, 12) ideally 4 hours of break-in playback at a time then a rest, for smaller drivers 6 hours of break-in at a stretch followed by a rest. Mark advises against playing the drivers non-stop.

6. For CHR/CHP drivers the break in period is less (150 hours)

If I have made any wrong assumptions/statements, please feel free to correct.

- Zia

 

[silverhairbp]

Thanks, Zia. This deviates a bit from the instructions provided on the data sheets. I will adjust accordingly.

I know it's been discussed, but how long is the typical breakin to get to full performance out of an A10.2?

It's not like I'm in a hurry. I just want to carefully get the drivers in the best condition they can attain.

 

[mikejennens]

I have apair of 10.2s that I broke in for the original period, 100 + hours in the boxes in which I recieved them. After that, I mounted them in the enclosures I built for them (Jim Griffin's MLTL) and have been listening to them as I break them in. It will take quite a while to get 300+ hours on them this way, but like you, I'm patient. I have noticed that they continue to improve in SQ as I play them more. I take this as evidence they are still breaking in. I've been pretty gentle with them, but I have been adding more volume to them a little at a time. I think the main idea is to start listening to them at moderate levels, and slowly increase the volume. For me, my typical listening volume is probably well below their capabilities. YMMV.
Bottom line... I'd recommend mounting them in their enclosures, listen to them this way, and gradually add volume to them.
Mike

 

[soundnovice]

low bass content for first 100h means can i take cutoff as 100hz? after filtering out low bass content can we play any music during breakin? also when we say low volume, how much dB we are talking about?

 

[Scottmoose]

There's a danger of over-complicating this. You don't need to start brickwall filtering or anything like that. Just use some material for the first 100 hours or so that doesn't have a heck of a lot of LF content, and play them quietly, so there is very little visible cone travel. This is not a matter that requires extreme precision, just some common sense. Afterwards, start lifting SPLs gradually, and begin to bring in some material with more low-end output. They'll continue to bed in for the next few hundred hours or so.

One point to stress. Although the MA drivers have a considerable Xmax (not that Xmax as a value means all that much without a heck of a lot of context & qualification), they won't thank you for hammering them with continuous 1/2in travel or similar. Few drive units will, and certainly not widebanders, where on top of the potential electromechanical distortions there are acoustical ones to think about too -FMD, AMD etc. As Mark points out, the travel is there for what in engineering terms he referrs to as 'shock loads', which in the world of audio are probably better known as occasional large low frequency dynamic peaks.

 

[markaudio]

low bass content for first 100h means can i take cutoff as 100hz? after filtering out low bass content can we play any music during breakin? also when we say low volume, how much dB we are talking about?

Hi Soundnovice,
Please DON'T filter out the bass. Remember you have a single cone driver that emits wide band (both mechanical oscillation and semi-stationary to stationary resonances). Its most important for the cone and power-train to receive full band, at low volumes while running in.

Ideally, drivers are best run-in when mounted in their speaker boxes but I appreciate many Diyers like to break-in the drivers in the pack boxes to save time. This is ok so long as they carefully choose music with modest bass and keep volumes low. Watch out for power-train movements that visually appear to exceed 1mm on the draw stroke (cone moving inwards) during the first 100 hours. Ease back the volume, or change the music if needed.

Cheers
Mark.

 

[chrisb]

Hi Soundnovice,
Please DON'T filter out the bass. Remember you have a single cone driver that emits wide band (both mechanical oscillation and semi-stationary to stationary resonances). Its most important for the cone and power-train to receive full band, at low volumes while running in.

Ideally, drivers are best run-in when mounted in their speaker boxes but I appreciate many Diyers like to break-in the drivers in the pack boxes to save time. This is ok so long as they carefully choose music with modest bass and keep volumes low. Watch out for power-train movements that visually appear to exceed 1mm on the draw stroke (cone moving inwards) during the first 100 hours. Ease back the volume, or change the music if needed.

Cheers
Mark.

glad to have you back at the keyboard Mark

 

[markaudio]

glad to have you back at the keyboard Mark

Thanks Chris,
I'm around until this Sunday (3rd Feb), going into St Pauls hospital that evening. Surgeries on the following 2 days then recovery where I'll no doubt get bored quickly. I'll have my laptop with me and hope to posting again maybe by the end of next week (ish).

Cheers
Mark.

 

[soundnovice]

Hi Soundnovice,
Please DON'T filter out the bass. Remember you have a single cone driver that emits wide band (both mechanical oscillation and semi-stationary to stationary resonances). Its most important for the cone and power-train to receive full band, at low volumes while running in.

Ideally, drivers are best run-in when mounted in their speaker boxes but I appreciate many Diyers like to break-in the drivers in the pack boxes to save time. This is ok so long as they carefully choose music with modest bass and keep volumes low. Watch out for power-train movements that visually appear to exceed 1mm on the draw stroke (cone moving inwards) during the first 100 hours. Ease back the volume, or change the music if needed.

Cheers
Mark.

thanks Mark. Its clear to me now
i have already built vented BS boxes so breakin will be done in them.

 

[Bob Brines]

I am glad that Mark has quantified "loud". 1mm. For me, 1mm is normal listing level for an A10.2. Of course, I don't listen to much music that is centered around kick drum, or the super compressed and clipped stuff that is passed of a music these days. I actually wound be listening to Vivaldi's "Four Seasons", or some of the other 8 concerti in OP 8, of the other 290 Vivaldi concerti/sonatas that I possess.

Bob

 

[silverhairbp]

I am glad that Mark has quantified "loud". 1mm. For me, 1mm is normal listing level for an A10.2. Of course, I don't listen to much music that is centered around kick drum, or the super compressed and clipped stuff that is passed of a music these days. I actually wound be listening to Vivaldi's "Four Seasons", or some of the other 8 concerti in OP 8, of the other 290 Vivaldi concerti/sonatas that I possess.

Bob

I am to the "Big 5" Russians what you are to Vivaldi. That has actually been of some concern in my migration to a true full-range system. Large-scale orchestral pieces are very challenging to even some large multi-driver systems.

I'm quite convinced that a FAST system is the real solution to my listening. I have some very good subs and, if necessary, some articulate 10" woofers to better cover the range between the subs and the A10.2s. My hope is to replace my current LARGE very full-range multi-driver system with a smaller Mark Audio-based FAST system at 1/100 the price.

Currently running a Copland collection CD to start getting some low-level bass into the drivers. About 130 hours of low-level music into the drivers.

 

[markaudio]

thanks Mark. Its clear to me now
i have already built vented BS boxes so breakin will be done in them.

Glad to help. My advice applies to both drivers being run in "free air - near free air" as well as in box. The main thing to remember is there's less risk of over-pushing the drivers during the run-in period if they're in a loudspeaker box.

Cheers
Mark

 

[markaudio]

I am glad that Mark has quantified "loud". 1mm. For me, 1mm is normal listing level for an A10.2. Of course, I don't listen to much music that is centered around kick drum, or the super compressed and clipped stuff that is passed of a music these days. I actually wound be listening to Vivaldi's "Four Seasons", or some of the other 8 concerti in OP 8, of the other 290 Vivaldi concerti/sonatas that I possess.

Bob

Hi Bob,
Know what you mean. Here's one of my likes (best played in a quiet moment)


Henryk Gorecki: Symphony No.3
Conductor: David Zinman
Performer: Dawn Upshaw
Orchestra: London Sinfonietta
Copyright Nonesuch Records (May 5, 1992)

Fab recording, Dawn Upshaw is pretty much perfect.

Cheers
Mark.

 

[phivates]

Dawn Upshaw

Is pretty much perfect. Indeed. Brings to mind a bumper sticker:
Art saves lives. All the ranting in the world comes to nothing when Ms Upshaw sings to us

 

[fastbike1]

For me, that symphony still seems to sound "the most right" with a Polish symphony.

Hard to listen to this piece without getting a bit emotional.

Hi Bob,
Know what you mean. Here's one of my likes (best played in a quiet moment)


Henryk Gorecki: Symphony No.3
Conductor: David Zinman
Performer: Dawn Upshaw
Orchestra: London Sinfonietta
Copyright Nonesuch Records (May 5, 1992)

Fab recording, Dawn Upshaw is pretty much perfect.

Cheers
Mark.

 

[lorienblack]

I am in the process of breaking in my 10.3m's, just packed into the original cardboard boxes. I have them at a volume which gives no visual evidence of cone movement, playing some Mozart string quartets.

I measure about 67db/1m max at the moment and the listening levels are just a shade below where I would chose to have it anyway.

Because one mans "moderate" is another mans "minuscule", I also would benefit somewhat from a rule of thumb in terms of decibels. If an average of 55/60db @ 1m with occasional 65/70 peaks is safe, then it's simply plug in and go for me, leave the Frank Zappa alone for a few weeks.

I am astonished at how good they sound within cardboard boxes, congratulations Mark and team, I am delighted.