Hey all. I recently purchased a ne-used car (97 Nissan Maxima) with a Bose system. Well not only is it bad to listen to, it skips on CDs with no scratches and brand new CDs.
My question, to any of you that may have had one of these systems, is where is/are the amps? and can I just swap in a new deck with minimal problems? I can figure it out but I am first opting for the easy answer. I have any test equipment that I need so if I need to do any minor, or major, operations, I am ready.
I was told by one friend that the amp is behind the deck. While I will replace the amp later, I just want to change the HU right away. I have also heard the the amps may be in the doors by the speakers? I have had no luck on the Nissan forums.
Thanks,
Jon
My question, to any of you that may have had one of these systems, is where is/are the amps? and can I just swap in a new deck with minimal problems? I can figure it out but I am first opting for the easy answer. I have any test equipment that I need so if I need to do any minor, or major, operations, I am ready.
I was told by one friend that the amp is behind the deck. While I will replace the amp later, I just want to change the HU right away. I have also heard the the amps may be in the doors by the speakers? I have had no luck on the Nissan forums.
Thanks,
Jon
Good luck...Bose is a bitch. Not only does it sound bad, they make the system's so hard to hack that you pretty much have to replace the entire thing if you want to get a decent system going.
AFAIK the amps are located behind the speakers. You could attempt to wire the speakers to the headunit directly, but be careful, the speaker + is attached to the amp +, but the speaker - is grounded to the vehicle's chassis, you need to take some care when wiring it to the headunit or you risk shorting out the headunit and destroying its built in amplifier.
If I had direct access to the vehicle I could give you more info, but I don't, so this is all I can give you for now...
AFAIK the amps are located behind the speakers. You could attempt to wire the speakers to the headunit directly, but be careful, the speaker + is attached to the amp +, but the speaker - is grounded to the vehicle's chassis, you need to take some care when wiring it to the headunit or you risk shorting out the headunit and destroying its built in amplifier.
If I had direct access to the vehicle I could give you more info, but I don't, so this is all I can give you for now...
Nice response!
and the parameters for the Bose speakers are incredibly unusual...I think bypassing the Bose amps with an aftermarket head unit would make the speakers sound worse, really.
and the parameters for the Bose speakers are incredibly unusual...I think bypassing the Bose amps with an aftermarket head unit would make the speakers sound worse, really.
Thanks for the responses. I do hate the POS system and maybe it is time I break down and just buy new installation stuff. My current stuff is in storage in Denver, too far away. I guess I will endure until I can replace the front speakers as well and throw my amp in there as well.
Bose Speakers
The headunit is not made by Bose; Bose is not in the headunit business. Only the amplifiers and the speakers are made by Bose. Applying any kind of after market speaker is perceived as 'tricky' because Bose speakers have a very low voice-coil impedance. It is usually 1 Ohm for the large bass drivers and 2 or 4 Ohms for the smaller drivers. So, when you select new amplifiers, make sure they can drive loads down to ~0.9 Ohms, to keep them out of the current protection or clipping mode. Picking an amplifier that cannot deal with this will lead to bad sound and/or blowing the drivers and/or the amplifier, for that reason. The Bose speakers are actually not bad at all, as long as you have an amplifier that can deal with them. The low impdance is chosen to be able to get more power into them. V^2/R is twice as large going from 2 to 1 Ohms, while having the same battery voltage. That is the sole reason. You probably try to listen at high volumes and experience non-optimal sound quality. This is because Bose protects their system by use of compressors, which are a bit on the agressive side for reliability reasons, making the sound quality change at high volumes; it effectively changes the EQ in a non-linear fashion. If you can turn the volume knob with care and avoid overdriving the speakers, you can make an attempt to turn the compressors off by picking an amplifier without them. Hacking the Bose amplifiers is also possible, but very hard. If you have to ask, don't attempt. Of course, you do have to re-equalize the system, because you also loose all your EQ by replacing the amplifiers. But you can mimic that with a aftermarket parametric EQ. You can get the curves by sweeping the stock amplifiers. Finally, Nissan has a CAN control network that controls the amplifier, e.g. turns the amplifier off. Now you have to do that using your iginition key.
The headunit is not made by Bose; Bose is not in the headunit business. Only the amplifiers and the speakers are made by Bose. Applying any kind of after market speaker is perceived as 'tricky' because Bose speakers have a very low voice-coil impedance. It is usually 1 Ohm for the large bass drivers and 2 or 4 Ohms for the smaller drivers. So, when you select new amplifiers, make sure they can drive loads down to ~0.9 Ohms, to keep them out of the current protection or clipping mode. Picking an amplifier that cannot deal with this will lead to bad sound and/or blowing the drivers and/or the amplifier, for that reason. The Bose speakers are actually not bad at all, as long as you have an amplifier that can deal with them. The low impdance is chosen to be able to get more power into them. V^2/R is twice as large going from 2 to 1 Ohms, while having the same battery voltage. That is the sole reason. You probably try to listen at high volumes and experience non-optimal sound quality. This is because Bose protects their system by use of compressors, which are a bit on the agressive side for reliability reasons, making the sound quality change at high volumes; it effectively changes the EQ in a non-linear fashion. If you can turn the volume knob with care and avoid overdriving the speakers, you can make an attempt to turn the compressors off by picking an amplifier without them. Hacking the Bose amplifiers is also possible, but very hard. If you have to ask, don't attempt. Of course, you do have to re-equalize the system, because you also loose all your EQ by replacing the amplifiers. But you can mimic that with a aftermarket parametric EQ. You can get the curves by sweeping the stock amplifiers. Finally, Nissan has a CAN control network that controls the amplifier, e.g. turns the amplifier off. Now you have to do that using your iginition key.
All that Bose equipment is repairable. And when repaired properly it sounds very good to the average car owner. This is why it has become the defacto standard amoung auto builders worldwide.
That and its fairly economical system to build into a car.
Some amps are located in a plastic enclosure behind each indivdual speaker. Others like Mercedes have one or more black box's located in the trunk or under the seat that hold all the amplifiers together in groups.
I know this because I repair the amps from time to time. I leave speaker replacement to my installer type buddies (I don't work on cars).
Anyway the head units are name brand manufactured.
So the deck is a name brand deck built to implement the Bose output standard that was developed entirely for the car audio industry.
Sorry to hear your deck is skipping, have you tried a cleaning CD to see if its lens dust related ???
Aftermarket companis make Bose interface modules that supply you RCA level signals, but they mostly cause sound quality issues. This is because Bose refuses to release any info on their private system.
There is a way around the Bose line level issue using all stock Bose equipment that will supply a RCA level signal via Bose decoding chips and it will have the EQ settings needed to make the Bose speakers sound like they should. ( not a cheap solution )
The other catch is you must run amps that are 1 ohm compatible as this is the load Bose decided worked best with 12 volt class D amp designs to get some real power to the driver.
There are a lot of 1 ohm amps out on the market. Phoenix Gold, and JL audio to name two. So between all of the posts you have the low down on Bose systems.
We repair the systems because there are a lot of folks out there that don't want to install a complete system in their car just to get a stereo to listen to. And not to mention the customization required to yank out all that Bose and replace it with aftermarket that fits and sounds acceptable.
That and its fairly economical system to build into a car.
Some amps are located in a plastic enclosure behind each indivdual speaker. Others like Mercedes have one or more black box's located in the trunk or under the seat that hold all the amplifiers together in groups.
I know this because I repair the amps from time to time. I leave speaker replacement to my installer type buddies (I don't work on cars).
Anyway the head units are name brand manufactured.
So the deck is a name brand deck built to implement the Bose output standard that was developed entirely for the car audio industry.
Sorry to hear your deck is skipping, have you tried a cleaning CD to see if its lens dust related ???
Aftermarket companis make Bose interface modules that supply you RCA level signals, but they mostly cause sound quality issues. This is because Bose refuses to release any info on their private system.
There is a way around the Bose line level issue using all stock Bose equipment that will supply a RCA level signal via Bose decoding chips and it will have the EQ settings needed to make the Bose speakers sound like they should. ( not a cheap solution )
The other catch is you must run amps that are 1 ohm compatible as this is the load Bose decided worked best with 12 volt class D amp designs to get some real power to the driver.
There are a lot of 1 ohm amps out on the market. Phoenix Gold, and JL audio to name two. So between all of the posts you have the low down on Bose systems.
We repair the systems because there are a lot of folks out there that don't want to install a complete system in their car just to get a stereo to listen to. And not to mention the customization required to yank out all that Bose and replace it with aftermarket that fits and sounds acceptable.
Line Level Inputs
The problem of signal matching between the head unit and amplifier is something you can easily fix. All you need to know is how much signal level the head unit puts out. Just burn yourself a disk with a 0 dBFS sine wave and turn the volume knob of the headunit up to maximum (or to a level just before clipping). Disconnect the amplifier.... or else.... Consider whether the headunit puts out a differential signal or a single ended signal. With Bose is is probably differential because it is more noise immune. This is why aftemarket amplifiers don't like to match up with Bose amplifiers, because they are commonly single ended. Anyway, every amplifier has a resistor attenuator circuit before you go into the ADC's. Rescale these to make the headunit line levels "fit" into the ADC, e.g. without overdriving them. The ADC input parameters can be found in dataheets all over the internet.
The problem of signal matching between the head unit and amplifier is something you can easily fix. All you need to know is how much signal level the head unit puts out. Just burn yourself a disk with a 0 dBFS sine wave and turn the volume knob of the headunit up to maximum (or to a level just before clipping). Disconnect the amplifier.... or else.... Consider whether the headunit puts out a differential signal or a single ended signal. With Bose is is probably differential because it is more noise immune. This is why aftemarket amplifiers don't like to match up with Bose amplifiers, because they are commonly single ended. Anyway, every amplifier has a resistor attenuator circuit before you go into the ADC's. Rescale these to make the headunit line levels "fit" into the ADC, e.g. without overdriving them. The ADC input parameters can be found in dataheets all over the internet.
justonemoreamp said:
I have not used a lens cleaning disk on it. I have blown air in the deck and sometimes that helps. I once tried to take the deck out to do a thourogh job and cleaning off all of the elctronics and clean the optics properly, but I could not really figure out how to take my dash apart. Odd considiering most of my other cars I had no problems disassembeling.
My question was more out of curiosity. I was in the car audio industry for several years and I came to dislike Bose systems and I have always intended to change it out. I plan on buying separate components for the fronts and I am still trying to figure out what to do for a sub amp, but that is not as important as getting my main amp in. I just wanted to know if Bose would make it difficult for me to swap out the HU so I could start the transfomation. For now I will save up and upgrade the whole system at once. Maybe I'll give it another shot and try extracting my deck again to do surgery.
Thanks for the help.
carstereohelp.com has instructions for your deck removal. Hope this helps out a bit.🙂
We use this sites info from time to time on those "how did they do that" installs lol lol lol Good luck!
We use this sites info from time to time on those "how did they do that" installs lol lol lol Good luck!
TO-3 said:
Hi ... I too have a 97 maxima and I was wondering how this went?
My headunit is falling apart , literally the buttons have started to fall out and one is missing. The tape deck is wrecked and the CD player doesn't work.
Ideally i'd like to replace the whole system as well while adding one of these badboys to it:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-570
However my knowledge is novice and i'm feeling like i'd rather just buy a sub , a headunit and an amp for the sub.
I dont want to get too deep into it money wise seeing as its an older car and I dont plan on having it much longer than 2+ years at the absolute most.
After reading through this i'm also feeling like maybe the eminence lab12 generation II may be too much of an imbalance to the stock speakers - which still do the trick but are pretty much worn out.
Any advice is appreciated.
thank you
An easy upgrade to the Bose system is a sub/amp and a pair of decent tweeters up front. That rounds out the system well, but nothing will make it extremely loud.
In your case, tossing a head unit in there will add a little complication. It would be best to buy a head unit with balanced outputs, but it's not necessary.
The Bose amps in older Maximas are inside the door speaker enclosures and mounted onto the chassis of the 6x9's. That's really irrelevant, because all wiring can be done at the head unit.
Do you have any installation experience? More importantly do you have access to tools and a multimeter? Most shops don't want to mess with the Bose systems, and may not take outside advice very well.
hey T,
thanks for the reply. I'm glad you said adding a pair of tweeters because those are the only speakers i'm really feeling like I need to replace since i've heard some distortion in the higher ends ... Those tweeters have been on their way out for a while ...
I'd say i've only done one solid install and that was only a kenwood deck , match up the colors on the harness. And then do some basic clip on , component replacement for the back and the front with a couple of tweeters added in the front of my 92 geo prizm 6 years ago.
I dont have a multimeter - although I wanted to grab one for beginning computer repair ... What would I be using the multimeter for in this situation?
Are they called balanced because they're already grounded ?
and yes ... I do have access to tools.
thanks for the help
thanks for the reply. I'm glad you said adding a pair of tweeters because those are the only speakers i'm really feeling like I need to replace since i've heard some distortion in the higher ends ... Those tweeters have been on their way out for a while ...
I'd say i've only done one solid install and that was only a kenwood deck , match up the colors on the harness. And then do some basic clip on , component replacement for the back and the front with a couple of tweeters added in the front of my 92 geo prizm 6 years ago.
I dont have a multimeter - although I wanted to grab one for beginning computer repair ... What would I be using the multimeter for in this situation?
Are they called balanced because they're already grounded ?
and yes ... I do have access to tools.
thanks for the help
Also as a side note =
So far , with about an hour or 2 of research i'm looking mainly at these two HU's :
Clarion DXZ785USB
Alpine CDA-9886
and possibly the Eclipse CD3200
Mainly because they offer USB support for flash drives ... My main concerns at this point are USB flash support , sound quality [bass and fidelity] and overall price. I am wondering though:
With the USB cables being attached from the back - I might need some type of USB extension cable to run into my glove box and if this is the case would it end up slowing down the read speed so much that it glitched out the music on playback?
I have no use for bluetooth [but if its included i wont mind] and i'm feeling like if I need a GPS i'll just go out and get an individual unit.
So far , with about an hour or 2 of research i'm looking mainly at these two HU's :
Clarion DXZ785USB
Alpine CDA-9886
and possibly the Eclipse CD3200
Mainly because they offer USB support for flash drives ... My main concerns at this point are USB flash support , sound quality [bass and fidelity] and overall price. I am wondering though:
With the USB cables being attached from the back - I might need some type of USB extension cable to run into my glove box and if this is the case would it end up slowing down the read speed so much that it glitched out the music on playback?
I have no use for bluetooth [but if its included i wont mind] and i'm feeling like if I need a GPS i'll just go out and get an individual unit.
crutchfield recommended this adapter to be used with the aftermarket deck for my 97 maxima with the bose factory system ...
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HlJYlb1GqVV/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=142C4NN03
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HlJYlb1GqVV/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=142C4NN03
Hey metaverse, sorry I can't keep up with your posting rate!
Balanced outputs have two signal wires per channel instead of one.
As for the HU's you mentioned, I'm not familiar with their new stuff. (Still using an Alpine 7904 from way back) Hopefully, someone will offer some advice there.
I'm no expert on USB, but would be surprised if a cable less than 20' or so caused any issues. Again, maybe someone more in tune with it will speak up...
That adapter appears to only have speaker level inputs, no RCA's. You may only need the OEM harness adapter if you're using preamp outs.
A potentially bigger question first, would be about your front speakers. Do you just have the single fullrange driver in the doors, or is there a separate tweeter that's giving you trouble?
The Bose amps had a tendency to squeal after a few years, due to a failing capacitor. Does this sound like your issue? This could affect your plans.
Balanced outputs have two signal wires per channel instead of one.
As for the HU's you mentioned, I'm not familiar with their new stuff. (Still using an Alpine 7904 from way back) Hopefully, someone will offer some advice there.
I'm no expert on USB, but would be surprised if a cable less than 20' or so caused any issues. Again, maybe someone more in tune with it will speak up...
That adapter appears to only have speaker level inputs, no RCA's. You may only need the OEM harness adapter if you're using preamp outs.
A potentially bigger question first, would be about your front speakers. Do you just have the single fullrange driver in the doors, or is there a separate tweeter that's giving you trouble?
The Bose amps had a tendency to squeal after a few years, due to a failing capacitor. Does this sound like your issue? This could affect your plans.
Bose isn't that big of a pain:
1-You can wire the aftermarket deck in just like any normal non-bose maxima, the harness has the same pins. Even a lot of the acuras with bose use the standard honda harness up front. I actually like working on the nissan and honda/acura bose systems when they come in, because other shops turn customers away and send them to us, lol.
3-Use the preamp out on your deck if you have it, otherwise you can use the normal floating high level output, just don't crank it as loud.
2-Unless there is damage to the amps or speakers, it will sound fine, with no squealing
3-If you really want to "redo" everything, the wires go directly from the deck to the amps so you don't need to run speaker wires. Unless you want to run an aftermarket amp and increase the speaker wire size, the stock wires will be fine.
1-You can wire the aftermarket deck in just like any normal non-bose maxima, the harness has the same pins. Even a lot of the acuras with bose use the standard honda harness up front. I actually like working on the nissan and honda/acura bose systems when they come in, because other shops turn customers away and send them to us, lol.
3-Use the preamp out on your deck if you have it, otherwise you can use the normal floating high level output, just don't crank it as loud.
2-Unless there is damage to the amps or speakers, it will sound fine, with no squealing
3-If you really want to "redo" everything, the wires go directly from the deck to the amps so you don't need to run speaker wires. Unless you want to run an aftermarket amp and increase the speaker wire size, the stock wires will be fine.
hey guys,
happy halloween ... and thanks for the input!
The tweeters are seperate speakers set into the door panel that came stock with the bose system.
The sound is more like high end distortion/white noise ... And it only comes in here and there , its not a constant thing. It definetly occurs more when i'm using my FM transmitter hooked up to my mp3 player.
I did a little bit of reading on the extension cord and what you said makes sense as well. It should be fine.
I also ended up going through the customer reviews on that adapter and found a couple of posts where people were saying you dont have to use it as long as you wire it yourself and I think someone mentioned soldering them as opposed to just twisting them ...
Its been a while so my memory isn't what it should - but the preamp outs are RCA connections , right ?? Again , its been a while and i've been burning a little too much of the green stuff 😀
@ppia600 = LOL , thats makes me think of a boss I had who was running a property damage company that deals with fire and sewer damage ... he said simply "if you're doing something no one else wants to do YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE GOOD MONEY"
thanks for the help guys
ps. I'm pretty sure i'm going to grab the clarion over the alpine.
happy halloween ... and thanks for the input!
The tweeters are seperate speakers set into the door panel that came stock with the bose system.
The sound is more like high end distortion/white noise ... And it only comes in here and there , its not a constant thing. It definetly occurs more when i'm using my FM transmitter hooked up to my mp3 player.
I did a little bit of reading on the extension cord and what you said makes sense as well. It should be fine.
I also ended up going through the customer reviews on that adapter and found a couple of posts where people were saying you dont have to use it as long as you wire it yourself and I think someone mentioned soldering them as opposed to just twisting them ...
Its been a while so my memory isn't what it should - but the preamp outs are RCA connections , right ?? Again , its been a while and i've been burning a little too much of the green stuff 😀
@ppia600 = LOL , thats makes me think of a boss I had who was running a property damage company that deals with fire and sewer damage ... he said simply "if you're doing something no one else wants to do YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE GOOD MONEY"
thanks for the help guys
ps. I'm pretty sure i'm going to grab the clarion over the alpine.
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