Yes - brand. Naim used their brand to sell into auto - I don’t even know if they actually made anything.
So Stereophile says:
"Industry heavyweight Bose is one of the best-known brands in audio. Its Model 901 speaker remains an iconic design, though the company is now best known as the market leader in noise-cancelling headphones."
And, after abandoning the 901 years ago (after a 50+ year run) the company couldn't be urged to upgrade its EQ and turn it into an audiophile product -- a modest research endeavor for a company this size. Shows that they don't value the audiophile market any longer and, once again, makes me question why they are buying McIntosh. Are they planning on having McIntosh redesign the 901 for them? Then both companies could lose money...
"Industry heavyweight Bose is one of the best-known brands in audio. Its Model 901 speaker remains an iconic design, though the company is now best known as the market leader in noise-cancelling headphones."
And, after abandoning the 901 years ago (after a 50+ year run) the company couldn't be urged to upgrade its EQ and turn it into an audiophile product -- a modest research endeavor for a company this size. Shows that they don't value the audiophile market any longer and, once again, makes me question why they are buying McIntosh. Are they planning on having McIntosh redesign the 901 for them? Then both companies could lose money...
Craig, if the design aesthetic for a potential born again 901* was by the Sonus Fabre team, at least they’d be purdy.
*I’ll refrain from igniting a new flame war by not asking “why would anyone want that?”😉
*I’ll refrain from igniting a new flame war by not asking “why would anyone want that?”😉
chris b: The 901 is coming up in each of the threads discussing this buyout. People love the old dog even with its timbral coarseness. Many are wondering will this change either of the 2 companies? Help Bose raise its quality? Lower McIntosh's level? I suggest they're just trying to stay alive.
Since Bose is a private company, you won't be able to find any numbers, but I suspect they are doing just fine financially. I can imagine McIntosh headphones, table top speakers, and sound bars for the high end market with corresponding pricing and a higher margin. After all, fancier boxes and labels can't cost too much.
What else is killing the high? Personal audio streamed to smartphones, headphones and a lot of money now goes into gaming rather than audio - there’s been a sort of cultural shift the last 20 years. There is a close linkage to all of this to the arrival of the iPhone, iTunes and now Spotify.
D & M Holdings = Denon & Marantz, brands are owned by them now.
They are traders, based in America, Far East contract manufacture, quality is well known to those who are in the repair business.
It looks like a puff play / tax break move rather than seriuos financial judgement.
PE player buys cheap, bumps up 'value', then sells it to another PE player, who does it again.
Pure manipulation, and the players get huge bonus.
Customer and product quality can take a hike.
Continental Tires or their owner Scahaeffler Group (FAG / INA / Luk / Schaeffler, bearings and friction parts) took over Blaupunkt from Bosch, that was also a reputed car entertainment brand.
What has happened now is that people are wearing buds all the time, either to use while talking, or listening to music at levels that will make them deaf.
And they want cheap stuff, the lowest price here was $8 last I checked, Apple and others are in the $150 range, their volumes will be low.
And even TV has been replaced by streaming on to cell phones.
Bose and McIntosh, you need a fixed place to use them, and listen.
In my opinion, a declining market.
By the way, Lamborghini sells about 10,000 cars annually, not a very big market compared to other sports car makers, and those cars are highly modified to each customer's choice of interior. Those guys will have their own choice for everthing, the custom modification will be done by specialists, it becomes more a brand to aspire for if Lambo uses it.
The difference in sound in a GM Suburban between a Bose and a Sony / Kenwood / Pioneer system would be a more normal day to day comparison.
In any case Bose is made on Far Eastern contract, there are reports saying it is built to price using mediocre parts, so it is buyer beware as far as I am concerned.
I use a simple system, with USB, $20, and use it at low volume, as I do not want to go deaf, and be able to listen to honking from outside the car...
They are traders, based in America, Far East contract manufacture, quality is well known to those who are in the repair business.
It looks like a puff play / tax break move rather than seriuos financial judgement.
PE player buys cheap, bumps up 'value', then sells it to another PE player, who does it again.
Pure manipulation, and the players get huge bonus.
Customer and product quality can take a hike.
Continental Tires or their owner Scahaeffler Group (FAG / INA / Luk / Schaeffler, bearings and friction parts) took over Blaupunkt from Bosch, that was also a reputed car entertainment brand.
What has happened now is that people are wearing buds all the time, either to use while talking, or listening to music at levels that will make them deaf.
And they want cheap stuff, the lowest price here was $8 last I checked, Apple and others are in the $150 range, their volumes will be low.
And even TV has been replaced by streaming on to cell phones.
Bose and McIntosh, you need a fixed place to use them, and listen.
In my opinion, a declining market.
By the way, Lamborghini sells about 10,000 cars annually, not a very big market compared to other sports car makers, and those cars are highly modified to each customer's choice of interior. Those guys will have their own choice for everthing, the custom modification will be done by specialists, it becomes more a brand to aspire for if Lambo uses it.
The difference in sound in a GM Suburban between a Bose and a Sony / Kenwood / Pioneer system would be a more normal day to day comparison.
In any case Bose is made on Far Eastern contract, there are reports saying it is built to price using mediocre parts, so it is buyer beware as far as I am concerned.
I use a simple system, with USB, $20, and use it at low volume, as I do not want to go deaf, and be able to listen to honking from outside the car...
As usual, no ties to any brand above.
Mr. Lamborghini, a big tractor manufacturer, bought a Ferrari for himself, and was not satisfied, so he started making cars to sell to those who wanted a change from Ferrari.
That is the story, at least.
The starting price of those cars is very high for those who are not very wealthy, and the associated costs of maintenance and operation must be kept in mind.
I know somebody whose daughter has a fancy super car, they get 100 Octane fuel for it in 210 liter drums from Mumbai, 700 km from Hyderabad.
The normal fuel here is 91, 93 is sold at 10% of the pumps, 87 will be available at less than 1% of the pumps.
100 is more or less Avgas, aviation gasoline.
Mechanic flies in from Dubai for tuning it up.
So, those guys can be really fussy about everything in their cars.
Mr. Lamborghini, a big tractor manufacturer, bought a Ferrari for himself, and was not satisfied, so he started making cars to sell to those who wanted a change from Ferrari.
That is the story, at least.
The starting price of those cars is very high for those who are not very wealthy, and the associated costs of maintenance and operation must be kept in mind.
I know somebody whose daughter has a fancy super car, they get 100 Octane fuel for it in 210 liter drums from Mumbai, 700 km from Hyderabad.
The normal fuel here is 91, 93 is sold at 10% of the pumps, 87 will be available at less than 1% of the pumps.
100 is more or less Avgas, aviation gasoline.
Mechanic flies in from Dubai for tuning it up.
So, those guys can be really fussy about everything in their cars.
Add salary, factory rent, dev costs, tooling, tax etc etc and I don’t think they don’t make lots of money. They make a living which is totally different.
If a Mac amp retails for 20 grand (outrageous I know) then it’s going out the door to a dealer at 8-10 grand and parts and labour for a product like that are probably 1-2 grand. Now factor in tax, product development, rent, other overheads etc and you soon see they cannot make a fortune. These are very low volume products so no high volume cost reduction benefits kick in across which to spread those costs in the same way Apple or Bose can do with items selling in their tens of thousands a year.
How many high end brand owners are flying around in private jets or driving around in Bugatti Veyerons?
😊
Bonsai makes an accurate case for McIntosh's financial situation and it is worth adding that the company's success depends upon its reputation and the quality of its offerings. The reputation is certainly there. Quality is another matter.
Regularly hear their speakers and amplifiers and they have a sound I term "polite sophistication." It does sound colored and not at all to my tastes. Have previewed their monoblocks (along with B&W speakers) at a local Best Buy Magnolia salon and found them to be, certainly, listenable. But when I come home and listen to the same pieces on my custom setup that prizes accuracy and soundstage alignment, am astonished at the difference. The colored McIntosh sound loses big time.
Of course, this is my opinion.
Many who purchase McIntosh equipment to put in a posh home are pursuing first the reputation, then the comfortable sound -- designed to work with all musical styles. Suspect that a certain percentage eventually migrate to more accurate products such as those found at Pass Labs.
BTW I have never heard one of their speaker setups that painted a good soundstage -- but perhaps they have all been in the wrong setting.
Regularly hear their speakers and amplifiers and they have a sound I term "polite sophistication." It does sound colored and not at all to my tastes. Have previewed their monoblocks (along with B&W speakers) at a local Best Buy Magnolia salon and found them to be, certainly, listenable. But when I come home and listen to the same pieces on my custom setup that prizes accuracy and soundstage alignment, am astonished at the difference. The colored McIntosh sound loses big time.
Of course, this is my opinion.
Many who purchase McIntosh equipment to put in a posh home are pursuing first the reputation, then the comfortable sound -- designed to work with all musical styles. Suspect that a certain percentage eventually migrate to more accurate products such as those found at Pass Labs.
BTW I have never heard one of their speaker setups that painted a good soundstage -- but perhaps they have all been in the wrong setting.
Sorry, more Bonsai word salad above. I meant to say ‘I don’t think they make much money . . . ‘
If you have ever made anything from scratch to a more than decent level, it is then that you start to realize, even in a small way, what it might take to make of that product. As your investment in making a few more products increase, it likely will become a game changer, i.e. just one of the reasons that so many startups fail.
From the numerous reviews of Mac amplifiers, a typical customer craving for a Mac brings the thing home, listens, and asks himself: is it Hi-Fi or not? Ok, maybe need to listen more and let it break in. After a few months of strenuous listening, the verdict is that it is more on the Hi-Fi side, and so many happy owners praising their Macs cannot be all wrong, and these iconic blue glowing meters are so cool.
My friend bought a used set of Mac mono amps. I winced. $10k is above my dreaming. He liked them a lot more after I sent a Velo-dyne SMS-1 processor to straighten out the bass, since the Marten Logan CLS speakers could use the boost, and a passive JBL sub was not being EQ correctly. No doubt that these amps were a boost to the system, but matching their use with the rest of the system made a big difference, and he is ecstatic. Yes, he loves his amps but won't be buying any more Mac equipment after this.
IME dealer would be 12-14k, and to get the better price would require buying a lot ofn them.
dave
