Did you ever measured the real capacity of these packs? I bought one years ago, which had like 50% of advertised capacity when new. The pack shown looks to small to really hold 6.8Ah*3. (Still works okay with increased internal resistance over time)
Hi, how would you go about to measure one of these batteries? Mine actually came today, it's in a black enclosure supposedly rated at 6800mAh. It's a shame the amplifier hasn't come yet though, I'm seriously hoping it comes tomorrow so I can proceed with the project.
Regards
Just dive in. But realize that creating a perfectly engineered devastating-sounding device the first time through is something that almost nobody can do. It's going to be a work in progress, but that means you'll have the thrill of figuring out a lot of little (and maybe not so little) things that each make noticeable improvements. I often find that I learned so much during a project that I just want to set it aside and start another version right away.
Build this knowing you may want to upgrade as you learn more and have experience with this one. I find it helpful to have a top/side/panel that comes off easily so I can get inside and tinker.
A few notes:
- There is a fundamental limit to how much sound an amplifier can make with 12 volts. I think it's something around 10-15 watts RMS/channel. So eventually you may want to upgrade to 24v or thereabouts.
- If your speakers are from a known manufacturer, see if the product literature has the parameters people were talking about here. Manufacturers sometimes suggest ideal volume and enclosure (port-tuned or sealed, for example).
- If you can find some parameters for your speakers, you might find online parameters for speakers that have similar numbers, and then you can check what kind of designs people are building. There are tons of designs on here. Once you know what volume and tuning/sealed works best, you can get that volume taller, wider, narrower, as long as it's not too extreme in proportion.
- Sealed cabinets have the reputation for delivering better bass performance (and accuracy, too, I think) at the expense of overall efficiency, compared to tuned ports.
-Everything's a tradeoff!
Build this knowing you may want to upgrade as you learn more and have experience with this one. I find it helpful to have a top/side/panel that comes off easily so I can get inside and tinker.
A few notes:
- There is a fundamental limit to how much sound an amplifier can make with 12 volts. I think it's something around 10-15 watts RMS/channel. So eventually you may want to upgrade to 24v or thereabouts.
- If your speakers are from a known manufacturer, see if the product literature has the parameters people were talking about here. Manufacturers sometimes suggest ideal volume and enclosure (port-tuned or sealed, for example).
- If you can find some parameters for your speakers, you might find online parameters for speakers that have similar numbers, and then you can check what kind of designs people are building. There are tons of designs on here. Once you know what volume and tuning/sealed works best, you can get that volume taller, wider, narrower, as long as it's not too extreme in proportion.
- Sealed cabinets have the reputation for delivering better bass performance (and accuracy, too, I think) at the expense of overall efficiency, compared to tuned ports.
-Everything's a tradeoff!
For cars the rule of thumb is:
Fast
Cheap
Reliable
Pick any two.
For loudspeakers:
Small
Efficient
Low bass
Pick any two.
Fast
Cheap
Reliable
Pick any two.
For loudspeakers:
Small
Efficient
Low bass
Pick any two.
Thank you for pitching in! I really appreciate it 🙂 As to the notes you wrote, I've got a few questions if you don't mind?
1. The 24volt battery is not optainable with one unit, whereas if I bought a second one that I've got currently could I Daisy chain two 12v batteries essentially making one 24v?
2. I did that today, it was a rough time to find these and digging through, but I can say that Pioneer did post all Thiele Small parameters on the universal manual, this is directed towards speakers that are of the like to the ones I have. I will post all of them tomorrow, for someones convinience!
I wasn't able to get an accurate calculation of the port that my box needed since Pioneer didn't include Frequency Tuning and frankly I've got no idea what that is.
3. I will try the sealed cabinet approach, if likeable I will keep it that way. 🙂
Thank you again for leaving valuable feedback!
Regards,
Leontin
1. The 24volt battery is not optainable with one unit, whereas if I bought a second one that I've got currently could I Daisy chain two 12v batteries essentially making one 24v?
2. I did that today, it was a rough time to find these and digging through, but I can say that Pioneer did post all Thiele Small parameters on the universal manual, this is directed towards speakers that are of the like to the ones I have. I will post all of them tomorrow, for someones convinience!
I wasn't able to get an accurate calculation of the port that my box needed since Pioneer didn't include Frequency Tuning and frankly I've got no idea what that is.
3. I will try the sealed cabinet approach, if likeable I will keep it that way. 🙂
Thank you again for leaving valuable feedback!
Regards,
Leontin
I agree with the others. Build and learn. It may not be exactly what you want but it's a tool to experiment with.. 😉
Don't misunderstand my suggestion of daisy chaining batteries. This will not increase voltage but increase amperage capacity ability and run time. The connections would be in parallel, not series..
Some suggestions..
Staying with your current build plans, divide the box in half internally. Separate the internal area of the drivers. Keep the cabinet sealed. Pack the internal area with fiberglass insulation, not tight but pretty much full. *Add a Baffle Step Compensation circuit to each driver. (Do some research on this. You won't be sorry!)* You will lose some overall loudness but the bass will sound much richer and the mid/highs will be more controlled. You can play with this circuit outside of the cabinet between the amp and the driver connections. Once you have found the "sweet spot", then you can install them on the drivers internally, hence leaving the cabinet accessible for the ability to do changes..
Run the drivers for at least 20-30 hours before adjusting. Let them loosen up and don't judge your changes until you have listened to thing for at least an hour afterwards..
Just some pointers. Don't rush! Take your time and test your unit outside if possible. Room reflections will cause you to chase your tail, trust me.. 😉
Don't misunderstand my suggestion of daisy chaining batteries. This will not increase voltage but increase amperage capacity ability and run time. The connections would be in parallel, not series..
Some suggestions..
Staying with your current build plans, divide the box in half internally. Separate the internal area of the drivers. Keep the cabinet sealed. Pack the internal area with fiberglass insulation, not tight but pretty much full. *Add a Baffle Step Compensation circuit to each driver. (Do some research on this. You won't be sorry!)* You will lose some overall loudness but the bass will sound much richer and the mid/highs will be more controlled. You can play with this circuit outside of the cabinet between the amp and the driver connections. Once you have found the "sweet spot", then you can install them on the drivers internally, hence leaving the cabinet accessible for the ability to do changes..
Run the drivers for at least 20-30 hours before adjusting. Let them loosen up and don't judge your changes until you have listened to thing for at least an hour afterwards..
Just some pointers. Don't rush! Take your time and test your unit outside if possible. Room reflections will cause you to chase your tail, trust me.. 😉
My god, the suggestions are fantastic but BSC..
I cannot cope with how any of it works, to my understanding it's a compensation to make the low end frequencies travel in a direction rather than escaping to the rear of the speaker. But I have no idea on how to implement it. There's no kits, how would I attempt this?
LOL.. There's no magic. No fancy "Wave Bending" is going on. Don't be intimidated.. 😉
BSC is no more than changing the mid/high frequency response of a driver. The area behind a driver (Baffle) changes the output of low frequency going towards the listening area. Reducing the mid/high frequency to match the best level of the low output of a driver is the primary function.. Read this..
BSC made simple (and why it may be important to you) – Audioblog
The circuit is simple. An inductor and a resistor in one wire to the driver..
Loudspeaker Diffraction Loss and Baffle Step Compensation Circuits
Think of it as a low pass filter with the capability to adjust the mid/high level so they can match in a better mix. The amount of bass is what it is, according to the driver and the enclosure that it's mounted in. The amount of bass is the basis of what the rest of the things are related to. (Low level bass, low overall SPL or volume level) The bass level doesn't change and it still leaks towards the back. BSC helps control the higher levels (Unmasks the bass) and makes the driver more responsive to EQ. Very nice circuit..
In your case, start with a 1mH. choke and a 5 ohm resistor. Connect direct to the drivers first and listen for a while and then add the BSC. You will see what happens. If things are still too middy, add more resistance. If things are too flat, reduce resistance BUT be careful! 1/2 ohm either way can make a significant difference!
Play and learn. Master this circuit! It's made a big difference in my portable builds..
BSC is no more than changing the mid/high frequency response of a driver. The area behind a driver (Baffle) changes the output of low frequency going towards the listening area. Reducing the mid/high frequency to match the best level of the low output of a driver is the primary function.. Read this..
BSC made simple (and why it may be important to you) – Audioblog
The circuit is simple. An inductor and a resistor in one wire to the driver..
Loudspeaker Diffraction Loss and Baffle Step Compensation Circuits
Think of it as a low pass filter with the capability to adjust the mid/high level so they can match in a better mix. The amount of bass is what it is, according to the driver and the enclosure that it's mounted in. The amount of bass is the basis of what the rest of the things are related to. (Low level bass, low overall SPL or volume level) The bass level doesn't change and it still leaks towards the back. BSC helps control the higher levels (Unmasks the bass) and makes the driver more responsive to EQ. Very nice circuit..
In your case, start with a 1mH. choke and a 5 ohm resistor. Connect direct to the drivers first and listen for a while and then add the BSC. You will see what happens. If things are still too middy, add more resistance. If things are too flat, reduce resistance BUT be careful! 1/2 ohm either way can make a significant difference!
Play and learn. Master this circuit! It's made a big difference in my portable builds..
My god, I was about to say **** it and leave the project altogether. The sound the sealed enclosure produced made my ears bleed, and the bass wasn't even noticeable... AT ALL.
When my head dropped, I went for one last attempt to make it worthwhile. I took out a PVC pipe, used the port calculator with these parameters.(separate post) It... took a 180 turn real fast, it sounds amazing. It gave me an adrenaline rush to finally feel confident enough to say that this actually sounds really good.
I'll go ahead and add some isolation and all the other electronics, but as of now, it's really a gem in my DIY history. 🙂
Pictures and parameters will come in the next post after this one! 🙂
When my head dropped, I went for one last attempt to make it worthwhile. I took out a PVC pipe, used the port calculator with these parameters.(separate post) It... took a 180 turn real fast, it sounds amazing. It gave me an adrenaline rush to finally feel confident enough to say that this actually sounds really good.
I'll go ahead and add some isolation and all the other electronics, but as of now, it's really a gem in my DIY history. 🙂
Pictures and parameters will come in the next post after this one! 🙂
Pioneer TS-C1700R Thiele Small Parameters (applicable for TS-1746II)
Revc (Ω) 3.1
Levc (mH) 0.35
Fs (Hz) 67
Zmax (Ω) 21
Qms 4.16
Qes 0.71
Qts 0.61
Vas 0.34
(cu ft/Liters) 9.5
Rms (NS/m) 1.49
Mms (g) 14.8
Cms (m/N) 3.83E-04
BL (T m) 5.20
Sd 20.51
(sq in/sq m) 1.32E-02
Hvc 0.46
(in/mm) 11.6
Hag 0.24
(in/mm) 6
Revc (Ω) 3.1
Levc (mH) 0.35
Fs (Hz) 67
Zmax (Ω) 21
Qms 4.16
Qes 0.71
Qts 0.61
Vas 0.34
(cu ft/Liters) 9.5
Rms (NS/m) 1.49
Mms (g) 14.8
Cms (m/N) 3.83E-04
BL (T m) 5.20
Sd 20.51
(sq in/sq m) 1.32E-02
Hvc 0.46
(in/mm) 11.6
Hag 0.24
(in/mm) 6
So it went from "made my ears bleed, and the bass wasn't even noticeable... AT ALL" to "good bass ... 32hz tuning ... punch ... I want to be felt ... amazing. It gave me an adrenaline rush" just by adding that little tube?
1. The bass wasnt noticeable without the tube.
2. I never said it got 32hz tuning or that it was a thumping in the chest.
3. It did make you cringe when the volume was high without the tube.
4. The adrenaline rush was because I was unsure if this project was going to be worth my time and money, since it made a large difference to the sound I got excited and happy!
It's quite a large tube though... My post might seem like an over exaggeration after but its justified by the change with and without the port.
Does anyone have an explanation?
Update: The amplifier arrived today, it's got a hizzing noise. Doesn't sound good at all. It sounds **** compared to what the test was like yesterday.
Albeit I used a full powered amplifier that most likely explains the sudden drop of quality.
I'll be returning the TDA7492P, I've ordered the Lepy 2020A if anyone has any experience with this particular one? Is it better than the TDA7492P?
Thanks
Albeit I used a full powered amplifier that most likely explains the sudden drop of quality.
I'll be returning the TDA7492P, I've ordered the Lepy 2020A if anyone has any experience with this particular one? Is it better than the TDA7492P?
Thanks
If you think it sounds good with the port then it is good. I did a quick simulation in a 15L box and if you ask me it needs 60Hz port and a lot of EQ to sound anywhere near what I would consider good.
What is the inner volume of your box and the dimensions of your port?
What is the inner volume of your box and the dimensions of your port?
Update 2... After extensive testing of the drivers that I was supposedly using and was told was really good, they were the problem.
With those two car drivers out of the equation, I had 1 VIFA bass driver and 1 middle driver and 2 tweeters. Entirely solved my problem. They actually do sound amazing currently. 8 ohm drivers really did a blessing on this speaker.
With those two car drivers out of the equation, I had 1 VIFA bass driver and 1 middle driver and 2 tweeters. Entirely solved my problem. They actually do sound amazing currently. 8 ohm drivers really did a blessing on this speaker.
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