I agree with many of the posters - bass is the biggest issue. My set-up utilises 2-way desktops with an 8" sub at my feet. My goal is for the desktop to cover the full spectrum at normal listening levels and the sub only to be utilised in anger or to fill the room. I have tried many configurations and concluded - 4" woofers can't cut it. Any break-up is exacerbated by the amount of power required to reproduce decent bass.
A 2-way system with 5" woofers satisfies nearfield requirements.
A 2-way system with 5" woofers satisfies nearfield requirements.
The TCP115 has a pretty decent xmax tho, and 4" to 5.25" inch that big of a difference , in bass?.
Won't be a problem since I have a sub, a few actually that I could use if bass would be a problem.
I would like some help with the crossovers, for the drivers, how much volume for the speaker cabinets, ideeas at least.
Won't be a problem since I have a sub, a few actually that I could use if bass would be a problem.
I would like some help with the crossovers, for the drivers, how much volume for the speaker cabinets, ideeas at least.
The problem is your driver is around 77dB @50hz. At its maximum input (40w) it is limited to around 90db - larger drivers are capable of this output using 1 watt. Drivers with a large Xmax are generally inefficient. Xmax is fad promoted for car enthusiasts - it sounds good like 'Turbo XZi'. The difference between domestic and automotive systems is that power consumption (cost) is not a real factor in a car.
I guarantee you will not be able to hear any improvement between a 2-way and 3-way system. 2-way, 10 litres, 5 inch bass will satisfy 95% of your requirements.
I guarantee you will not be able to hear any improvement between a 2-way and 3-way system. 2-way, 10 litres, 5 inch bass will satisfy 95% of your requirements.
Do you really need the added complexity of a midrange here? I must admit that I'm not entirely convinced that a 3-way design is warranted in this particular instance.
You have the 3.5-inch PS95-8 and the 4.0-inch TCP115-4 ostensibly doing much the same thing at the lower end of the frequency range. The PS95-8 is then being used as a tweeter, but in that role it suffers from a lot of break-up modes higher up in the frequency spectrum. It will of course work in that role, but it's not likely to be as good a result as can be achieved through alternative approaches.
The filter design for the TCP115-4 that you have created thus far shows some promise, with an approximate –6dB down point of 3.0kHz. However, the filtered response of this woofer has a very broad dip between 300Hz and 2kHz. This needs to be attended to. Adding a Zobel network and adjusting the filter component values should enable you to more or less get rid of that broad dip.
If you replaced the PS95-8 with the ND16FA6 5/8-inch tweeter, this tweeter's response would be expected to be able to blend in quite well with the filtered acoustic response of the to the TCP115-4. The ND16FA6 has a quite smooth response, and the crossover frequency could be set to be around 3kHz, or a little bit lower, when it is being used.
Ok, thank you everyone for your time and responses, I will get a nice pair of 5.25 inches woofers with some low fs tweeters .
But , as I already bought those, I might build them and sell them , or give them .
@Surtsey @witwald @stv @abstract @Bigun
Would this help the bass dip?
48hz at -3 , tuned to 55 , 6 L box.
But , as I already bought those, I might build them and sell them , or give them .
@Surtsey @witwald @stv @abstract @Bigun
Would this help the bass dip?
48hz at -3 , tuned to 55 , 6 L box.
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I don’t think a small dip is that audible, but I prefer a slight hump in the bass if at low enough frequency. My experience is rather limited, only a few DIY builds. I’ve found that there’s a weak correlation between these box simulations and my perception of the speaker performance once built. And worse, it takes time, because you start with a new build having certain expectations and you may even be happy with the results which later you realise were flawed. In my opinion, if you are going down the path of buying woofers and tweeters then your best approach is to copy a proven DIY 2-way design rather than modelling something up from scratch. There are many proven designs out there.
When it comes to bass quality good old Hoffman and his Iron Law will dictate your results. Maximizing bass performance on paper can lead to a finely optimized design that in the end sounds OK. Until you hear something better. The optimized bass reflex designs that push extension too far don’t have the same ‘sound’ to me, as something which doesn’t have to struggle. Dave of Planet 10 has designs for full range which are semi aperiodic, smoothing out the impedance peak in the bass, resulting in less extension on paper but better sounding. For near field listening you have one big benefit in not needing high SPL so you can design for a bit of EQ at the low end which might work well.
When it comes to bass quality good old Hoffman and his Iron Law will dictate your results. Maximizing bass performance on paper can lead to a finely optimized design that in the end sounds OK. Until you hear something better. The optimized bass reflex designs that push extension too far don’t have the same ‘sound’ to me, as something which doesn’t have to struggle. Dave of Planet 10 has designs for full range which are semi aperiodic, smoothing out the impedance peak in the bass, resulting in less extension on paper but better sounding. For near field listening you have one big benefit in not needing high SPL so you can design for a bit of EQ at the low end which might work well.
I got the speakers, the ps95's are better then I expected, nice sound, mids are great, detailed, highs as you guys said no need for tweeters ,they slowly roll off at around 16'ish khz, they are a tiny bit bright. but not to much. Im happy with them.
As for the TCP105's they lack mids , idk how they build with just a tweeter in a 2way, crossed the tweeter down to 1.8-2.5khz or so?. Anyway good drives but I was expecting more bass from them, hehe u guys said 4 inch aint much , but I have already bought them . The bass sounds good but there isn't so much .
I won;t go 3way anymore no way in that, 2way , 300-400hz xover, maybe first order as it's low power ( desk use ) , or maybe i'll go 2nd order im not sure yet.
As for the TCP105's they lack mids , idk how they build with just a tweeter in a 2way, crossed the tweeter down to 1.8-2.5khz or so?. Anyway good drives but I was expecting more bass from them, hehe u guys said 4 inch aint much , but I have already bought them . The bass sounds good but there isn't so much .
I won;t go 3way anymore no way in that, 2way , 300-400hz xover, maybe first order as it's low power ( desk use ) , or maybe i'll go 2nd order im not sure yet.
Personally I'd cross lower, try around 120hz. Your sim won't tell, only your ears will. You have double coverage between 110 and 5000hz you need to decide which driver performs best within this rage. In compensating for you disappointing bass response, the lower the cross-over frequency, the more power can be safely sent to you woofer.
Ironically, this set-up is (in practical terms) not dissimilar to a typical big-box 2.1 system. They will utilise a single 5 or 6 1/2" sub whereas you have 2 X 4". Invariably, their satellites contain a single 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inch drive and have cross-over frequencies range from 120 to 160Hz,
Who knew?
Ironically, this set-up is (in practical terms) not dissimilar to a typical big-box 2.1 system. They will utilise a single 5 or 6 1/2" sub whereas you have 2 X 4". Invariably, their satellites contain a single 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inch drive and have cross-over frequencies range from 120 to 160Hz,
Who knew?
@Surtsey Haven't tried the woofers in a "proper box yet ". I condiser bi-amping also, would a simple passive, rc like filter at the input of the amp work for high pass, low pass or I need a buffer or " proper active filters"?.
How about low value caps at the output of the amp? They will cut the bass also " protect the mid range from dc ?. Thank you , Bruno.
How about low value caps at the output of the amp? They will cut the bass also " protect the mid range from dc ?. Thank you , Bruno.
@Surtsey I'm finally happy with the bass , initially I tested them in 5.5L boxes sealed and ported to 60, 50, 45hz I didn't like them. they sounded better sealed in 5.5L. I know it looks junky as .... but just for quick testing, 12L tuned to 52hz sound way better, they fill my room .
Red box is 17 cm deep / depth ( where the speaker sits ) now , making the boxes 20 - 22 cm deep , is it bad for the woofer? I mean I think depth , from the speaker magnet matter as well?. For 10 - 12 L , I need to make them deeper, something like 18 - 20 wide , 25 tall , 22 deep to get 11L .
Port is 5 x 15cm .
Also , the front baffle is " huge " , if my final boxes are the same air volume but the front baffle is smaller , 18-20cm and 25'ish tall, instead of the almost square 30 x 34 cm on the red box , will that affect bass as well ?.
Red box is 17 cm deep / depth ( where the speaker sits ) now , making the boxes 20 - 22 cm deep , is it bad for the woofer? I mean I think depth , from the speaker magnet matter as well?. For 10 - 12 L , I need to make them deeper, something like 18 - 20 wide , 25 tall , 22 deep to get 11L .
Port is 5 x 15cm .
Also , the front baffle is " huge " , if my final boxes are the same air volume but the front baffle is smaller , 18-20cm and 25'ish tall, instead of the almost square 30 x 34 cm on the red box , will that affect bass as well ?.
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You seem to be going down an odd path. Firstly, we need to clarify what measurements you are using to calculate your cabinet volume.
200 x 250 x 220 provides a net volume of 8 litres. (7 litres once you've deducted for the driver and ports). Using a 50 x 150 port results in a tuning frequency of 75hz. Even 8 litres is probably oversized for a 4" driver.
Based on the '3-way' picture in your opening posts, I'd build the 8 litre cabinet and order another pair of 4" woofers (4 in total). Model for both sealed and ported. Tuning a port doesn't offer much for free; where you gain in one area you lose in another. 70hz will give you 'big bass' 50hz will sacrifice big bass for LFE.
Google 'bookshelf speakers' you'll struggle to find a decent pair with a singe 4" woofer.
200 x 250 x 220 provides a net volume of 8 litres. (7 litres once you've deducted for the driver and ports). Using a 50 x 150 port results in a tuning frequency of 75hz. Even 8 litres is probably oversized for a 4" driver.
Based on the '3-way' picture in your opening posts, I'd build the 8 litre cabinet and order another pair of 4" woofers (4 in total). Model for both sealed and ported. Tuning a port doesn't offer much for free; where you gain in one area you lose in another. 70hz will give you 'big bass' 50hz will sacrifice big bass for LFE.
Google 'bookshelf speakers' you'll struggle to find a decent pair with a singe 4" woofer.