Hey,
I want to add Bluetooth connectivity to a dac that I’m building. Really just looking for a Bluetooth receiver/ transmitter that I can incorporate within my build. The dac is based on an AD 1862N that has been graciously offerd by a member , Miro 1360. It looks like a great implementation and I will initially be using a i2s over usb board from jlsounds to access files from my Mac mini (2012). The addition of Bluetooth will allow a somewhat easier way to explore more music. I will probably set the inputs up on a switch to go between each source, which is another issue I need to settle. Anyway, suggestions please for something you’ve tried and some details
Thanks
I want to add Bluetooth connectivity to a dac that I’m building. Really just looking for a Bluetooth receiver/ transmitter that I can incorporate within my build. The dac is based on an AD 1862N that has been graciously offerd by a member , Miro 1360. It looks like a great implementation and I will initially be using a i2s over usb board from jlsounds to access files from my Mac mini (2012). The addition of Bluetooth will allow a somewhat easier way to explore more music. I will probably set the inputs up on a switch to go between each source, which is another issue I need to settle. Anyway, suggestions please for something you’ve tried and some details
Thanks
I’ll be looking forward to your results with that arrangement. That DAC is supposed to offer a great amount of detail, and it will be interesting to hear how a Bluetooth codec will manifest itself through it.
My Bluetooth device is much more simple and mundane, yet am not dissatisfied with how it sounds. Am using some of the 1” square, $2 boards that have analog output. A dedicated power supply, decent amplifier, coupling caps probably help.
I have a nicer amp that is direct coupled, and there is no way I’m going to use one of these cheap boards with that one since there’s DC offset produced, but instead through other amps that have coupling caps as part of their design. I cannot complain regarding the sound, especially considering the simplicity/cost, and knowing that the technology is currently limited to CD quality resolution anyways.
Having access to so much music so easily is about like having something like a variety of good wine piped into your home, can get spoiled pretty easily. Someday I’ll have to turn n the better quality system back on and see what I’ve been missing.
My Bluetooth device is much more simple and mundane, yet am not dissatisfied with how it sounds. Am using some of the 1” square, $2 boards that have analog output. A dedicated power supply, decent amplifier, coupling caps probably help.
I have a nicer amp that is direct coupled, and there is no way I’m going to use one of these cheap boards with that one since there’s DC offset produced, but instead through other amps that have coupling caps as part of their design. I cannot complain regarding the sound, especially considering the simplicity/cost, and knowing that the technology is currently limited to CD quality resolution anyways.
Having access to so much music so easily is about like having something like a variety of good wine piped into your home, can get spoiled pretty easily. Someday I’ll have to turn n the better quality system back on and see what I’ve been missing.
I'd bet something like this wouldnt be too difficult to get up and running; https://www.ebay.com/itm/124473333735
Caveat; Who knows... I've never personally tried it! Better than speech SQ, comes with an external antenna.
Caveat; Who knows... I've never personally tried it! Better than speech SQ, comes with an external antenna.
Phase
My access is currently a basic Bluetooth dongle but I still enjoy the music and to my older ears the sound quality isn’t bad at all.
indiglo
An antenna for sure. Honestly I’m not sure what codecs my current bt receiver supports.
jjasniew
Thanks for the link. That module looks to be an updated version of the one I was considering
I wasn’t sure how much of a response I would get about Bluetooth in this forum. I’m a bit surprised adding Bluetooth connectivity is so cheap. Makes me cautious about quality, which is difficult to discern. It’s gonna be a minute before I get this all together as I’m waiting on parts, but when I make progress I’ll update this thread
Thanks again
My access is currently a basic Bluetooth dongle but I still enjoy the music and to my older ears the sound quality isn’t bad at all.
indiglo
An antenna for sure. Honestly I’m not sure what codecs my current bt receiver supports.
jjasniew
Thanks for the link. That module looks to be an updated version of the one I was considering
I wasn’t sure how much of a response I would get about Bluetooth in this forum. I’m a bit surprised adding Bluetooth connectivity is so cheap. Makes me cautious about quality, which is difficult to discern. It’s gonna be a minute before I get this all together as I’m waiting on parts, but when I make progress I’ll update this thread
Thanks again
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The ones I am using are the 5.0 spec, have the extended range vs an older 4.2 board, that’s a giveaway that they aren’t faking it. Also sound much better than mono, for-speech-only. Looking at some data sheets for similar devices from the same chip company, they have a dsp that offers a few basic options if you have the programming fixtures, sockets, and software.
These days you don’t have to pay a lot for the good codecs, unlike two or three years ago. I think I’ll have to get one of those QCC5125 boards to compare to the rot-gut ones I have been using. I will have the benefit of using my modded AK4495 DAC with the lls output Bluetooth board. I have a feeling it’s going to be akin to comparing different CDs however.
These days you don’t have to pay a lot for the good codecs, unlike two or three years ago. I think I’ll have to get one of those QCC5125 boards to compare to the rot-gut ones I have been using. I will have the benefit of using my modded AK4495 DAC with the lls output Bluetooth board. I have a feeling it’s going to be akin to comparing different CDs however.
Most likely if its a basic dongle its just using the standard bluetooth audio codec, the simple reason being it's backwards compatible with all bluetooth devices.
The best way to check codec capability is to determine what bluetooth chipset is in use. As an example, using the bluetooth board from the previous posts, its stated that a QCC5125 chipset is being used. Performing a search and we end up with Qualcomm as the chipset vendor - Qualcomm QCC5125
From their website they list what codecs are natively supported in hardware, in this case it's - AptX, AptX HD and AptX Adaptive. You will also have to ensure that any other device you want to connect to that needs to receive or transmit audio also supports Aptx, such as headphones and mobile phones.
Codecs can be implemented either embedded in hardware as in a Qualcomm chipset or in software as is the case with mobile phones.
In the case of software codecs the raw data is passed to/from the bluetooth hardware to a adc/dac for processing. Processing audio with a software codec will allow multiple types of codecs to be supported. In the case of mobile phones multiple software codecs are supported within the operating system (Android / Apple IOS) such as the Sony LDAC
Phase
Yes indeed , the qualcom chip looks very interesting.
indiglo
Thanks for the great post, I’m looking at that link now
Excellent!
I don’t know for sure how much difference people hear from person to person, different equipment, etc, but I can usually appreciate going from 16/44 to 24/96, or 24/192.
After further looking at the QCC5125, it appears to be 5.1, and that upgrade from 5.0 doesn’t include any audio benefit. That change was to allow for greater ability to locate geographically, and less power consumption.
Maybe I will wait until the newer devices are more available. The ones that will have the lc3plus codecs, with 24/96.
After further looking at the QCC5125, it appears to be 5.1, and that upgrade from 5.0 doesn’t include any audio benefit. That change was to allow for greater ability to locate geographically, and less power consumption.
Maybe I will wait until the newer devices are more available. The ones that will have the lc3plus codecs, with 24/96.
Correct, in the codec area Qualcomm and Sony would be considered competitors, Qualcomm is a semiconductor manufacturer which embeds their Aptx codec inside their chipset. Sony's Ldac is essentially a software codec and Microchip provides a Ldac hardware chipset solution. Sony developed Ldac as a solution for their own audio product range. A mobile phone for example will included multiple audio codecs implemented in software via the operating system, including Aptx, Ldac, AAC, Flac, MP3 etc etc.
Both Aptx and Ldac are proprietary audio codecs.
In simple terminology:
Totally related, the greater the data rate the higher the audio quality. The requirement for audio codecs is to compress the audio so as to fit within the bluetooth data rate. This is also dependent on the received signal level, when the signal level reduces the bit error rate will increase. To maintain data integrity the radio link will reduce the data rate to reduce data errors, in this case the audio codec will adapt and reduce its bitrate to reduce audio drops outs at the expense of audio quality.
Audio codecs are software algorithms optimised for audio encoding and decoding, the implementations will vary, some are open standards, others are proprietary available under license. Essentially the codecs are striving to provide maximum audio quality over a variable radio link.
Here is a nice demonstration of the LC3 Codec at various bitrates - LC3 Bitrate Demonstration
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If you don't need low power consumption then Raspberry Pi (I tested 4B, but Zero W or 2W should also work) is what you need. It has all the necessary hardware and even supports LDAC and APTX/HD (but not Adaptive).
In case low power consumption is needed, there are multiple choices: use Qualcomm's SoCs (QCC5 series: QCC5125, QCC5144, QCC5151). Only first of the chips supports LDAC right now (I am trying to port LDAC to QCC5144, but still no success. Got it to compile, but it still doesn't work. Would be nice if someone could help me with that. QCC5151 should be pretty straightforward to do once QCC5144 will work). The second option is to use Microchip's BM83 (there's LDAC version of IC, not sure where to buy). TI has CC2564C and Bluekitchen stack appears to support LDAC (this is the best option until I make LDAC work on QCC5144).
The LC3 codec won't work because it's used in LE Audio. Specifications are not released yet and there are no devices to support it (this may change in near future, there is some work done in Android source code to address that). LC3 is not ideal, I'd prefer LC3plus HR, even though there's some patent ********, one still can use it (just as LDAC), source code is public. It's also somewhat compatible with LC3.
LC3 for LE Audio would be what SBC is now for Classic A2DP Audio
In case low power consumption is needed, there are multiple choices: use Qualcomm's SoCs (QCC5 series: QCC5125, QCC5144, QCC5151). Only first of the chips supports LDAC right now (I am trying to port LDAC to QCC5144, but still no success. Got it to compile, but it still doesn't work. Would be nice if someone could help me with that. QCC5151 should be pretty straightforward to do once QCC5144 will work). The second option is to use Microchip's BM83 (there's LDAC version of IC, not sure where to buy). TI has CC2564C and Bluekitchen stack appears to support LDAC (this is the best option until I make LDAC work on QCC5144).
The LC3 codec won't work because it's used in LE Audio. Specifications are not released yet and there are no devices to support it (this may change in near future, there is some work done in Android source code to address that). LC3 is not ideal, I'd prefer LC3plus HR, even though there's some patent ********, one still can use it (just as LDAC), source code is public. It's also somewhat compatible with LC3.
LC3 for LE Audio would be what SBC is now for Classic A2DP Audio
Codecs have differing capabilities, LC3 is a codec designed to overcome the issues of legacy codecs along with its implementation with bluetooth LE (Low Energy) mode.
You can implement the LC3 either via a bluetooth chipset which already has built-in capability for LC3 or depending on your software engineering skills download the algorithm and implement the codec in software for processing prior to on sending the data to the bluetooth radio modem.
You can read more about the LC3 codec from the inventors - Fraunhofer IIS LC3 and LC3plus audio codecs
LC3 is open standard and it seems a licence is required but it is unclear if royalties are required. So it maybe a case of just a legal MOU (Memorandum of Understanding). The LC3Plus codec and description is available from ETSI.
Other codecs require an upfront license payment plus ongoing royalties per device. This is general advice, mainly related to the software implementations.
Generalised examples (commercialised products) where you may not need a license where the codec is embedded in the bluetooth chipset, you may need a license however if you are implementing the codec algorithm in software externally from the bluetooth chipset to encode an audio stream.
Ciao!
Che ne dici di questo?
https://www.ebay.it/itm/28353583692...4720417092&widget_ver=artemis&media=WHATS_APP
Che ne dici di questo?
https://www.ebay.it/itm/28353583692...4720417092&widget_ver=artemis&media=WHATS_APP
@intojazz - I've done exactly what you want to do. I have built a few using Miros design, and used quite a few front ends feeding them. I have not tested the various modules there are out there, but I can recommend the ones linked below as being excellent. I'm listening to it here now as I type, and I continue to be impressed with it.
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/blue...er-module-csr8675-aptx-hd-to-i2s-p-14184.html
You'll find the same modules if you look around on aliexpress for a few euro cheaper but make sure you select exactly that board, and with i2s output as you cannot change from eg spdif output to i2s afterwards.
Also, if you want to try switching sources (so you can just add the module on to an existing build) I've ad good luck with the switch modules linked below. They give you up to 4 inputs, you can programme them for 2, 3 or 4 inputs easily by button presses at startup. You can also configure the output so that it just sits onto the Miro dac board (depending on which one you have). You just need a NO momentary button and DC supply. You can hook up LEDs from the selector board to show which input you have selected. Audiophonics have these instead but they have a different pinout and I'm not sure if they are programmable the same way. There were two versions and I think the audiophonics ones are earlier.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000187738733.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.5d431802t3mDPR
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/blue...er-module-csr8675-aptx-hd-to-i2s-p-14184.html
You'll find the same modules if you look around on aliexpress for a few euro cheaper but make sure you select exactly that board, and with i2s output as you cannot change from eg spdif output to i2s afterwards.
Also, if you want to try switching sources (so you can just add the module on to an existing build) I've ad good luck with the switch modules linked below. They give you up to 4 inputs, you can programme them for 2, 3 or 4 inputs easily by button presses at startup. You can also configure the output so that it just sits onto the Miro dac board (depending on which one you have). You just need a NO momentary button and DC supply. You can hook up LEDs from the selector board to show which input you have selected. Audiophonics have these instead but they have a different pinout and I'm not sure if they are programmable the same way. There were two versions and I think the audiophonics ones are earlier.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000187738733.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.5d431802t3mDPR