BLINDTEST: Midrange 360-7200hz, NO audible difference whatsover.

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#503
So, yeah, sorry:



Mid-High 360-20,000hz, NO audible difference whatsover.




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#506
All depends on the SPL like I said numerous time. At 100dB@20Hz, no problem at all. You exceed your Xmax at that level and I'm only at 5mm of travel. 100 watts required for me, 600w for you.
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JonBocani said:
So here is the SPL test I did:

-Maximum possible volume (0db master volume)

-Average SPL was about 108db and reached a 114.8db peak @ 1m distance

-Whole bandwith, listening to music not tones or pink noise


Here are the tunes I used:

Avratz - Infected Mushroom
Johto 1 - Pan Sonic
Poem Of Chinese Drum - Hok-Man Yim
Time Dot - Alva Noto
Euphrates (part II) - COH

All tunes that are usually extremely demanding for a sound system, especially at high SPL, except Johto 1 that was used basically to focus on the higher frequencies.


So here are my comments:

could not reach any *audible* distortion level from either the 3fe22 or the RAAL 64-10, but at some point the woofer (and even the passive radiator) where obviously mechanically limited. Like I said, that's very very demanding music tunes.

Also, even though the 3fe22 is un-EQd therefore is having a different FR, at high SPL it makes it even more difficult to spot them.
I am *sure* that I wouldnt be able to spot an EQd 3fe22 from an EQd 64-10... UNLESS, I am not able to EQ the 3fe22 same as the 64-10 (because he couldnt reach 20khz, by example, which I doubt, but still a possibility) but even still, the differences are already much more subtle than expected...

To push the HF drivers even further, I would need both: 1) more gain 2) a highpass on the woofmid (and maybe just a more robust woodmid such as 15pr400) but 114db peak was already pretty loud for a ''normal HiFi'' environment, I would say...
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It's pretty much obvious that the bottleneck in high SPL (and not ''super high SPL'' such as PA's 125db+) is related to the lower frequencies.

And more specifically the 20-40hz range. 1st octave.

But then, you have room gain. Doesnt need that much to be satisfied.

And then, most of us, audiophiles, would be pretty happy with a 105db @ 30hz. And... *actually*, many of them, could live with some flimsly 100db f3 45hz because, well you know, bass is not so important and blablabla...

How many audiophiles here in the room are having a sound system that could sustain even a 25hz pure tone @ 95db for more than 30 seconds...? Uh?

So, you're having a pair of 21's in some gigantic enclosures, for what exactly? The real reason is you THOUGHT they are better sounding. That they provide a better QUALITY bass...

But, in fact, they exists solely to be LOUD. They're made to play loud. They're designed to deliver some 120-130db @ 40hz and up. That's it.

And you don't use them as they were originally designed for.
 
#507
JonBocani said:
So here is the SPL test I did:

-Maximum possible volume (0db master volume)

-Average SPL was about 108db and reached a 114.8db peak @ 1m distance

-Whole bandwith, listening to music not tones or pink noise
Click to expand...

Something sounds amiss with getting 108dB average SPL from a 3fe22...

Full AES rated power gets it to only 103-104dB.

And ime drivers seldom maintain 6 dB of peak headroom when driven close to AES...
 
#508
Ok your experiment was one thing but now you are saying that the pursuit of low excursion is a farce as well? Dynamic headroom, mechanical and electrical....allow the signal to be played back, uncompressed...thats widely accepted....your experiment didn't even try to address this and if I didn't ask, how many of these judges were in the audio engineering field?

I can mix and master my own material and find a crowd of people who think it sounds professionally manufactured....yet I understand that my skill is not that of which I would call top shelf...I know the pro-level stuff sounds better than mine, I'd be delusional to boost my confidence off the ears of consumers....
 
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#510
Mid-High 360-20,000hz, NO audible difference whatsover...within a very specific set of criteria...
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Is that so?

SPL ruled out, at least within normal Hi-Fi use...


Then what? what's left is power response / stereo image, ze ''soundstage''...

...and nothing, absolutely nothing, has been shown that blindly we could detect in stereo a pair of 3'' cone from a pair of ribbon or a dome or a AMT or a compression. There is nothing so far that indicates that it's something to explore.

And even if detection would be possible, somehow, the criteria would most probably be VERY SPECIFIC. 🙄
 
#514
mark100 said:
Something sounds amiss with getting 108dB average SPL from a 3fe22...

Full AES rated power gets it to only 103-104dB.

And ime drivers seldom maintain 6 dB of peak headroom when driven close to AES...
Click to expand...


Music.

Not tones or pink noise.

and more importantly, full bandwith. The peaks were most probably from the woofer-mid, not above 3khz.

That's real-life test, it means I play real music, on the full bandwith.

Master volume to the max, can't push it more anyway.
 
#519
tomahack said:
As I said many many times, depend on the SPL.
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That's the whole point, anyway.


It's all SPL-dependant.



As long as you determine the target SPL, you can select your drivers (and your amps) and then work on the frequency response, which will then be possible over the entire range, without audible distortion, without any problem, as long as the selection is made in accordance with the target SPL.

And the target SPL is directly related to the room. As well as precise usage.


SPL-FR. That's the new 42.
 
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