where is the discussion about circuit?
No more developments from so many posts also.
PCB & circuit layout already loaded. Anybody assembled it or not?
or just off the topic discussions only.
Waiting for views of people who has given thought or taken some action.
Palesha
No more developments from so many posts also.
PCB & circuit layout already loaded. Anybody assembled it or not?
or just off the topic discussions only.
Waiting for views of people who has given thought or taken some action.
Palesha
hehe, want action.... i want also... they prefer this way
We have to understand... they want this way, normally one came and say some strange thing... and them start the whole thing.
In Radio Amateur, here in Brazil the same thing... but here was worst... when you were having good conversation, someone enter and said "STUPID"... and all people turns nervous... and i always saying, words is only words..... the words value is one small part of sub extract of horse gazes evaporated and mixed with air.... wide world air.... so, value is nothing....action has bigger value.... if i need board, you run to do for me.... if i ask informs, you run to answer me (hehe), good words, are filling the hell....but friends switched their radios off.
This way, as we could not make the thing respectable here, we decided together to construct on undestructable club.... we choice one frequency, we made friends in the "controllers" of radio frequency transmission (government FCC) and we started a mass in that frequency.. the oposite.... when we have the need to say, i like you.... we use to say, i hate you!.... everything was allowed.... could talk together.... could try to cover the other ones.... limit power was 100 watts, we go to 2KW and directional antennas, Yagi Horizontal antennas.... and we kick their , only friends, powerfull, could talk in this channel. we covered everybody.... except USA truckers.... too strong those guys... so we had our talk.... we change the word meaning, and when we want to say, be happy, we said "go to hell".... if one enter and said you mother F----.... we answer, why are you trying to be agreable with me?... i am already marriage.
This way, had o problems anymore... i was Sitting bull, the terrible, the worst on earth....only a theater representation personality...but i turn famous for 12 years wide world.
Carlos
We have to understand... they want this way, normally one came and say some strange thing... and them start the whole thing.
In Radio Amateur, here in Brazil the same thing... but here was worst... when you were having good conversation, someone enter and said "STUPID"... and all people turns nervous... and i always saying, words is only words..... the words value is one small part of sub extract of horse gazes evaporated and mixed with air.... wide world air.... so, value is nothing....action has bigger value.... if i need board, you run to do for me.... if i ask informs, you run to answer me (hehe), good words, are filling the hell....but friends switched their radios off.
This way, as we could not make the thing respectable here, we decided together to construct on undestructable club.... we choice one frequency, we made friends in the "controllers" of radio frequency transmission (government FCC) and we started a mass in that frequency.. the oposite.... when we have the need to say, i like you.... we use to say, i hate you!.... everything was allowed.... could talk together.... could try to cover the other ones.... limit power was 100 watts, we go to 2KW and directional antennas, Yagi Horizontal antennas.... and we kick their , only friends, powerfull, could talk in this channel. we covered everybody.... except USA truckers.... too strong those guys... so we had our talk.... we change the word meaning, and when we want to say, be happy, we said "go to hell".... if one enter and said you mother F----.... we answer, why are you trying to be agreable with me?... i am already marriage.
This way, had o problems anymore... i was Sitting bull, the terrible, the worst on earth....only a theater representation personality...but i turn famous for 12 years wide world.
Carlos
Sticking my neck out here but this french guy has taken basically the blameless and modified it to reduce what he, and lavardin, calls memory which I interpret as errors due to varying Vbe when the transistors heat up by the music. He is very pleased with the results.
Memory distortion filosofies
I would love to hear the verdict from a experienced amps builder like Destroyer_X.
If you haven't ripped everything to bits could you test some of the ideas on the blameless destroyer?
I can understand that a class A device would have less problems with the thermal variations since it is always hot and the power over each transistor varies ledd than for a class ab device.
I actually am very interested in applying simple modifications to my amp at home to see if there is something in this memory distortion. Anyone know a good european source for 2sk246 and 2sj103?
Havent searched since but has the memeory distortion issue been up for discussion before?
Memory distortion filosofies
I would love to hear the verdict from a experienced amps builder like Destroyer_X.
If you haven't ripped everything to bits could you test some of the ideas on the blameless destroyer?
I can understand that a class A device would have less problems with the thermal variations since it is always hot and the power over each transistor varies ledd than for a class ab device.
I actually am very interested in applying simple modifications to my amp at home to see if there is something in this memory distortion. Anyone know a good european source for 2sk246 and 2sj103?
Havent searched since but has the memeory distortion issue been up for discussion before?
I am preparing new one, sometimes i think funny too, Mr theytold will be one of them
Mr theytold, is the one that likes the sound because THEY TOLD
that it is good.... i am preparing some analist titles.
hehehe, if no one else laugh, i will certainly will fall of the chairs when the "ones", that inspirate me are near...hohohohohoho!
Carlos
Mr theytold, is the one that likes the sound because THEY TOLD
that it is good.... i am preparing some analist titles.
hehehe, if no one else laugh, i will certainly will fall of the chairs when the "ones", that inspirate me are near...hohohohohoho!
Carlos
The Lavardin theory is interesting, and certainly marketable, lots of people have read it.
It is based on the notion that tiny transistor chips are heated by waveform passage through them, and what we are hearing now depends on what has gone before; a bit like fade in auto brakes.
It certainly makes sense, but less in Class A than Class B circuits. What we should be asking is whether the negative feedback loops can accommodate these thermal changes, and just how large they are. My own feeling is that in the early stages of power amplifiers, up to an including the voltage amplifiers, thermal memory effects are probably not sonically significant, but they might well be significant in Class AB output devices. However, as the output stage of most amplifiers is an emitter/source follower, the non-linearities are relatively minor and gradual in nature, based as they are on changing base/emitter (gate/source) voltages, and very likely easily corrected by the NFB. Actually, I suspect that the sonic flavor of a power amplifier derives from the voltage amplifier, NOT the output stage, and is intimately connected with operating point and stabilisation regime.
Cheers,
Hugh
It is based on the notion that tiny transistor chips are heated by waveform passage through them, and what we are hearing now depends on what has gone before; a bit like fade in auto brakes.
It certainly makes sense, but less in Class A than Class B circuits. What we should be asking is whether the negative feedback loops can accommodate these thermal changes, and just how large they are. My own feeling is that in the early stages of power amplifiers, up to an including the voltage amplifiers, thermal memory effects are probably not sonically significant, but they might well be significant in Class AB output devices. However, as the output stage of most amplifiers is an emitter/source follower, the non-linearities are relatively minor and gradual in nature, based as they are on changing base/emitter (gate/source) voltages, and very likely easily corrected by the NFB. Actually, I suspect that the sonic flavor of a power amplifier derives from the voltage amplifier, NOT the output stage, and is intimately connected with operating point and stabilisation regime.
Cheers,
Hugh
Haven't read the lavardin site but the link i gave was to the peufeu site where he is doing an easy to follow analysis of memory in the amplifier, of course he is trying to prove a point but still.
He also concluded that the VAS was the biggst source of memory distortion, provided that the output stage was an EF.
Like i said i would like, since I have no experience practically with this yet, if someone that has the blameless up and running would try some of the ideas in the link. I think it would be straightforward to cascade the VAS and current sources and increase the resistors in the current mirror to start with.
He also concluded that the VAS was the biggst source of memory distortion, provided that the output stage was an EF.
Like i said i would like, since I have no experience practically with this yet, if someone that has the blameless up and running would try some of the ideas in the link. I think it would be straightforward to cascade the VAS and current sources and increase the resistors in the current mirror to start with.
Prune said:
😀 You'r not the only one. 80% of the time, I haven't got a clue what is being said!
Although, to be fair, I think this line is one of his best:
🙄
Just to check Destroyer_X did you say no, not interested or that its on the list of things among others, including the theytold amp, or was the post not a reply to me?😕
I think you would have to do something to the output stage to avoid the memory distortion there. I think the device that controls the gain should have as little power variation as possible.
How do you set bias and DC operatin point in your device?
How much gain do you have?
Maybe this is drifing off topic to a memory distortion thread?
How do you set bias and DC operatin point in your device?
How much gain do you have?
Maybe this is drifing off topic to a memory distortion thread?
hjelm said:
I think the device that controls the gain should have as little power variation as possible.
yes but with a common sense][/QUOTE]
How do you set bias and DC operatin point in your device?
How much gain do you have?
The ccses are jfets with the potentiometers at their source to set the current. Then is a simply correction of the offset at the output. I can not tell the overall gain but is enough to drive the speakers with a cd connected via the potentiometer to the input.][/QUOTE]
Maybe this is drifing off topic to a memory distortion thread?
So who will start?
[/QUOTE]
Please remember that the schematic was only estimated, not exact! However very close to reality.
If the VAS is the principle memory distortion culprit, then we can minimize it by:
First, increasing the voltage supply to the VAS so that it is around 3 x that for the output stage. So, on 50V rails, we would need 150V rails for the VAS. This approach ensures that the swing is about 30% of the available voltage, and should minimize waveform thermal cycling, and
Second, by using a large die transistor with more thermal inertia.
Unfortunately the first issue requires use of an expensive, second high voltage supply, with commensurate transistors, caps, etc, and the second issue, larger die sizes, militates against high speed, which is an essential feature of the voltage amplifier.
I must revisit the site and see how Frederic does this........
Cheers,
Hugh
First, increasing the voltage supply to the VAS so that it is around 3 x that for the output stage. So, on 50V rails, we would need 150V rails for the VAS. This approach ensures that the swing is about 30% of the available voltage, and should minimize waveform thermal cycling, and
Second, by using a large die transistor with more thermal inertia.
Unfortunately the first issue requires use of an expensive, second high voltage supply, with commensurate transistors, caps, etc, and the second issue, larger die sizes, militates against high speed, which is an essential feature of the voltage amplifier.
I must revisit the site and see how Frederic does this........
Cheers,
Hugh
Sorry, i think the Theytold is not to this thread
Yes, i becaming old friends.
Someone asked me to write my crazy technical, philosophical, terrible and funny tests
One morning, thinking about some forum's people, i perceived some diferent personalities, and i could see that some can match with a title Mr Theytold... and many others... around 30.
But do not remember who asked that.
Not directly to no one... and Mr. Theytold will never discover he is the man that inspired me...because we have, all of us, defenses.
We never realise, so clear...or not easy to do, who we really are, this way, no one will be heart.... Mine inspiration man, may fall from his chair laughing, without perceive...he was the inspiration.
That situation confuses a lot our lifes.... we never know if we kind of not.... the others can see more clearly.
We always are thinking we are the "King of the frite potatoes with ketchup".... and the girls are looking because "i am beautifull"....but sometimes not true.
The amplifier already died....i gave it a shot!, this one will never disturb me again.
Carlos
Yes, i becaming old friends.
Someone asked me to write my crazy technical, philosophical, terrible and funny tests
One morning, thinking about some forum's people, i perceived some diferent personalities, and i could see that some can match with a title Mr Theytold... and many others... around 30.
But do not remember who asked that.
Not directly to no one... and Mr. Theytold will never discover he is the man that inspired me...because we have, all of us, defenses.
We never realise, so clear...or not easy to do, who we really are, this way, no one will be heart.... Mine inspiration man, may fall from his chair laughing, without perceive...he was the inspiration.
That situation confuses a lot our lifes.... we never know if we kind of not.... the others can see more clearly.
We always are thinking we are the "King of the frite potatoes with ketchup".... and the girls are looking because "i am beautifull"....but sometimes not true.
The amplifier already died....i gave it a shot!, this one will never disturb me again.
Carlos
I.m nervous enough around 50V. I stick with memory distortion, if the alternatine is 150V rails!
This seems crazy, but hear the crazy mind sound
You will see that to hear "spatial sound", we must have one "lunatic" designer.
His last model, Hugo model, is sounding here... slowly beeing better and better, not more ashamed related JLH.... it is reaching JLH quality step by step.
Lindsey hood gonne, welcome the new ones that are growing fast, a simple man, not proud of his habilities,locked inside his laboratory all daylight and some night part too.
He is looking at the schematics i intended to assemble, and predict the sound...
Amazon man.... this one will have wonderfull voice, some strange bass, and awfull treble... and goes talking things that i do not understand.
I assemble, and confirm his words, done it 11 times till now, my Multisim cannot tell me this....he can.
The most interesting, is that this man is not bringing not really new, but with a very impressive result.
Each one of us has own "bible"... he is my bible, i learned to respect him.
Do the crazy things he suggest, you will be surprised.... i am.
His amplifier, without some factory pre adjustment parts, are not good, i receive one extra board from him, mine had a damage, in this one i assemble my way.....result was not very good, could not match his components match magic.... as i said him once...his wodoo magic.
Said to him.... "a hell hugh, this is not science, this is magic"...
Answer, do it first Carlos, 10 years ago i also think alike you, do it first and return to tell me the result.
Someday i will have a coffee with this man, happy to be close this wonderfull "lunatic"
Carlos
You will see that to hear "spatial sound", we must have one "lunatic" designer.
His last model, Hugo model, is sounding here... slowly beeing better and better, not more ashamed related JLH.... it is reaching JLH quality step by step.
Lindsey hood gonne, welcome the new ones that are growing fast, a simple man, not proud of his habilities,locked inside his laboratory all daylight and some night part too.
He is looking at the schematics i intended to assemble, and predict the sound...
Amazon man.... this one will have wonderfull voice, some strange bass, and awfull treble... and goes talking things that i do not understand.
I assemble, and confirm his words, done it 11 times till now, my Multisim cannot tell me this....he can.
The most interesting, is that this man is not bringing not really new, but with a very impressive result.
Each one of us has own "bible"... he is my bible, i learned to respect him.
Do the crazy things he suggest, you will be surprised.... i am.
His amplifier, without some factory pre adjustment parts, are not good, i receive one extra board from him, mine had a damage, in this one i assemble my way.....result was not very good, could not match his components match magic.... as i said him once...his wodoo magic.
Said to him.... "a hell hugh, this is not science, this is magic"...
Answer, do it first Carlos, 10 years ago i also think alike you, do it first and return to tell me the result.
Someday i will have a coffee with this man, happy to be close this wonderfull "lunatic"
Carlos
People think 150V is too much, maybe crazy idea
But you need only not to put your fingers over this voltage point to see if really have voltage there...hohohoho
What do you think in use your voltimeter!
Carlos
But you need only not to put your fingers over this voltage point to see if really have voltage there...hohohoho
What do you think in use your voltimeter!
Carlos
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