Playing with driver sizes i discovered that bigger drivers does not really have better imaging but because they are bigger can give you a more strong phantom imaging.
But can have on that factor.
These are just examples, is not about output.
A small 2" midrange will have Great imaging, close to the listener and to each other. Are good for desk speakers but for a living room you need bigger drivers because if u use small 2" in your living room, being so far from each other and from the listener, the imaging will be defused and not focused.
But can have on that factor.
These are just examples, is not about output.
A small 2" midrange will have Great imaging, close to the listener and to each other. Are good for desk speakers but for a living room you need bigger drivers because if u use small 2" in your living room, being so far from each other and from the listener, the imaging will be defused and not focused.
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count pixels??? oh wait it's audio imaging we're talking about...so yes good question!How do you measure imaging?
Human hearing has very short memory. How do you know you are not imagining things?You hear it
from Roger Sanders:MAGING:
The direction of the sound you hear from a speaker system is determined by the location of the surface from which the sound emanates. A typical, wide-dispersion speaker radiates its sound out into the room where it bounces off various walls and objects in the room.
You hear these reflections as well as the sound from the speaker. This is especially true of the very strong the reflection off the wall near the outside edges of the speakers. Therefore, when listening to wide dispersion speakers, it is common for the sound and image to appear to be wider than the spacing between the speakers because you are actually hearing the sound coming off the walls beside the speakers.
In a narrow dispersion speaker, there are no room reflections -- at least none that are significant enough to affect the speaker's image. So you hear the sound coming directly from the speakers. Therefore, the width of image will be defined by the space between the speakers. A truly holographic, 3-dimensional image will appear to float in space between the speakers.
If you want a wider image, simply place the speakers more widely apart. Note that narrow dispersion speakers can be placed as widely as you wish without developing that dreaded "hole in the middle" of the sound that you get from wide dispersion speakers.
Because reflected sounds ("room acoustics") degrade the sound coming from the speakers, any speaker that generates an image beyond the outside edges of the speakers will produce a less-than-perfect image. The speaker needs to confine the image to the space between the speakers for best performance. For a discussion of this problem in detail, please read Roger's white paper on the subject at Dispersion White Paper
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/sanders-sound-systems-electrostatic.480/#post-4621
So according to your A and b tests, bigger midrange (unspecified size) has better imaging than smaller midrange (2").A
A and b tests
Is this universally true for every midrange?
How about fullrange? Does bigger fullrange image better than smaller fullrange?
I assume you did the comparison where you used all other things identical, except the size of the midrange. Like the same 3way speaker was compared with the same woofers and tweeters, except midrange was different.
How about crossover? Was that identical of changed?
How about tweeter? Does not tweeter affect imaging?
I assume electronics was the same in both cases.
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Impulse....How do you measure imaging?
I'd trust my microphone over your ears...You hear it
Stereoimaging?Impulse....
Can you please post link to your thread where you measure stereoimaging? Or any other source, web or article.
Thanks.
You could be experiencing something as simple as directivity, but I'm not sure we're clear on that yet.
This is a complex subject and it requires knowledge to give a constructive response to the original question (hint, hint).
This is a complex subject and it requires knowledge to give a constructive response to the original question (hint, hint).
"Midranges/drivers" so my post in not about only midrange.
I said that bigger drivers does not give you a better imaging but if they are bigger that the application needed or room size it can give you a stronger imagine focus, a stronger centre phantom channel. Basically the distance limit from the speakers, bigger speakers needs a bigger distance for the listening point, if you can't have that, the stage will be tighter.
I said that bigger drivers does not give you a better imaging but if they are bigger that the application needed or room size it can give you a stronger imagine focus, a stronger centre phantom channel. Basically the distance limit from the speakers, bigger speakers needs a bigger distance for the listening point, if you can't have that, the stage will be tighter.
I don't think there is haters in here.
i re read your edited post and from it i see major interesting points:
Ok but what makes this difference? Size change an important parameter relative to driver characteristic.
So it's from something else! 😉
Which dictate some particular acoustic situation called nearfield.
Difused and not focused? So what does differ from preceding acoustic situation ( nearfield)? : distance and scale and with that early reflection pattern.
I would take a look at directivity rather than size to explain your observation (even if for direct radiators it's linked).
i re read your edited post and from it i see major interesting points:
Playing with driver sizes i discovered that bigger drivers does not really have better imaging but because they are bigger can give you a more strong phantom imaging.
Ok but what makes this difference? Size change an important parameter relative to driver characteristic.
These are just examples, is not about output
So it's from something else! 😉
A small 2" midrange will have Great imaging, close to the listener and to each other.
Which dictate some particular acoustic situation called nearfield.
Are good for desk speakers but for a living room you need bigger drivers because if u use small 2" in your living room, being so far from each other and from the listener, the imaging will be defused and not focused.
Difused and not focused? So what does differ from preceding acoustic situation ( nearfield)? : distance and scale and with that early reflection pattern.
I would take a look at directivity rather than size to explain your observation (even if for direct radiators it's linked).
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"Midranges/drivers" so my post in not about only midrange.
I said that bigger drivers does not give you a better imaging but if they are bigger that the application needed or room size it can give you a stronger imagine focus, a stronger centre phantom channel.
Which is messed by early reflections...
Basically the distance limit from the speakers, bigger speakers needs a bigger distance for the listening point, if you can't have that, the stage will be tighter.
From where do you get that? Bigger speaker need more distance if they are multi ways ( more than 2 ime) and need some distance for sumation to happen and to be felt as being 'coherent' (wrt to how ways sum). But that is not universal: a coax or MEH don't need that for example.
I had 12" coax for some time. They kept their imaging quality either really closely located up to 3m spacing ( limit for phantom imaging to happen being 3,5m)...
I don't need someone else to tell me, In my opinion, it is plain to see. In an anechoic chamber a good loudspeaker will give near perfect imaging, there's no reflections to destroy the image. The more accurate the signal to your ear is to the signal sent from the loudspeaker, the better imaging. There are other things a loudspeaker can do to destroy the image as well, surrounding the topic of dispersion, I am sure you know them all, already.... Its just accuracy.... Accuracy is imaging.Stereoimaging?
Can you please post link to your thread where you measure stereoimaging? Or any other source, web or article.
Thanks.
For that reason you won't have a really great impulse at the listening position associate with what people describe as "bad imaging". Amongst the first thing one does upon optimizing a system is to time align the sources... which essentially is, cleaning up the impulse.
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Hello Jipolx,Playing with driver sizes i discovered that bigger drivers does not really have better imaging but because they are bigger can give you a more strong phantom imaging.
I would like to understand . Can you please tell me what you mean by phantom imaging? In my mind all imaging is phantom , but you seem to make difference between imaging and phantom imaging ("better imaging" vs "strong phantom imaging"). Probably I am misunderstanding. Thank you.
The perception of the holographic like centre channel speaker. A stronger more dense imaging aka stage, but not really about precision, depth or height.Hello Jipolx,
People like to argue, especially in diy audio, everyone wants to be right
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