Look at something like the Eminence Kappa 15LF. Solid 40 Hz response in a standard reflex loaded cab, mechanical power handling to around 250W, $135. Bullet proof on a standard home stereo amplifier or receiver. Use either dual 6" mids or the 1" phenolic horn driver, and a good 1" Ti horn driver on top (which only needs to be good down to about 2.5K, which means relatively cheap ones can be used).
The target budget is under $300
Crossover as simple as possible (money and modifications later)
I don't have a target SPL in mind, just loud with lots of bass
The enclosure is most likely going to be 18" sonotube 6' high
I can get it locally in 12' lengths.
My original inspiration is from the econo waves, but I would like to try and play around with the woofer dispersion to to roll the woofer off naturally and cross the tweeter over at around 2k If that doesn't work I could add a more conventional crossover.
I'm still thinking i want to play around with some of the cheap MCM woofers 2X12" woofers. If they are unusable I could send them back. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec Sheets/55-2962.pdf
Assuming I do use a 12" woofer with a natural roll off at around 2k and it does not work out I would need a Tweeter that would play lower. It looks like the conventional wisdom says around 1200hz for the typical econowave??
So any suggestions on a waveguide and tweeter? Inexpensive that would play down to 1200hz or lower up to 18K I would prefer something with a flat response and phenolic but I don't know it that's to much to ask.
Thanks, Jordon
Crossover as simple as possible (money and modifications later)
I don't have a target SPL in mind, just loud with lots of bass
The enclosure is most likely going to be 18" sonotube 6' high
I can get it locally in 12' lengths.
My original inspiration is from the econo waves, but I would like to try and play around with the woofer dispersion to to roll the woofer off naturally and cross the tweeter over at around 2k If that doesn't work I could add a more conventional crossover.
I'm still thinking i want to play around with some of the cheap MCM woofers 2X12" woofers. If they are unusable I could send them back. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec Sheets/55-2962.pdf
Assuming I do use a 12" woofer with a natural roll off at around 2k and it does not work out I would need a Tweeter that would play lower. It looks like the conventional wisdom says around 1200hz for the typical econowave??
So any suggestions on a waveguide and tweeter? Inexpensive that would play down to 1200hz or lower up to 18K I would prefer something with a flat response and phenolic but I don't know it that's to much to ask.
Thanks, Jordon
Yes, those are the satellite speakers. The woofer cabinets are also front horn loaded.
Horns are the way to go for party time.
Delta Pro 15. Takes a bigger box than the Kappa, runs out of excursion sooner, but it will play cleanly to 2-2.5k without a midrange. Most 15's out there will not do that, especially if they are optimized for bass. It's very similar to the OEM driver they supply for the Yamaha 15" club series - which ahs pretty much the same requirement of crossing over high to a cheap compression driver. Off axis will have a hole, but it's really not that bad for a 'party' speaker. Sounds a lot like the old Pyle Drivers from the mid-late 70's. I used to use the Pyle 18's with a tweeter like that back in my early days. And that old beast was the best bass guitar rig I ever heard, to boot. Too bad Pyle doesn't make stuff like that anymore. I know even that stuff is really obsolete, but it served a need that's really lacking these days
No such animal. Unless it's a cone midrange or a phenolic mid driver that needs a separate tweeter. Most inexpensive option that works is the DH200 crossed at 2.5 KHz. If your 15 goes high enough, it can work. 12's work better that way, but you really won't have much bass. Even for a party speaker you need 50 Hz or lower.
$300 for the pair? How 'bout... Eminence BP102 in 100-liter-ish bass reflex $150 (use 30cm wide cabs and you get extremely flat response from that woofer, btw), Dayton H10RW $23, DT250P-8 $100 = $273/pair driver cost, will do plenty of bass to impress most people unless the room is huge and won't take much power to do it.
HF portion of the crossover would require some skill to do well, though, and you wouldn't want to run the woofer wide open, although a single inductor + zobel can do fine.
HF portion of the crossover would require some skill to do well, though, and you wouldn't want to run the woofer wide open, although a single inductor + zobel can do fine.
The secret to that is the BP102 is a 92dB/W woofer, vs. 96 or 97. They do go low for a 10" PA driver, but the sensitivity is quite a bit lower. You could just as well use a Dayton Series 2 10", and get lower in a bigger box. Price probably a wash.
I don't really see how you could say that driver can get lower... and anyway unlike the BP102, it's garbage for a 2-way. In any case, for very loud and cheap it's SPL at xmax that's going to matter, not sensitivity alone. Your Delta Pro (significantly more $ than BP102) makes plenty of sense for that, not that you don't know it. It would go much louder than BP102 with less deep bass, or could be tuned low and EQ'd to approx. equal BP102 in extension (but losing most or all of its max SPL advantage that way), or somewhere in between.
I've fought that battle for a long time in my youth - when $800 amplifiers and $500 subwoofer drivers were simply out of the question. How can you get as much bass as possible in a full range system and a 200 watt amplifier? The answer always came back to sensitivity at 40 Hz - with the one knob you have to turn being the size of the cabinet. You get more dB per watt if you're willing to lug around a big box. I ended up with an x-max of 4mm or less, with a mechanical power handling of maybe 150 watts. But that doesn't matter as much in an application where not all of the amplifier's output goes into the bass fundamentals. Some of it is robbed to reproduce midrange, which cuts down on the excursion requirement. By the time you drive the kick and bass line to x-max, you're also clipping the hell out of the midrange and highs and it's getting pretty garbled. At that point, your biggest battle is keeping the amp cool.
Been toying with this idea also, although keep seeing bargain PA speakers is the $100 range that would probably work as well. With many Radio Shack stores closing, they are marking down to half price. (just picked up a 250watt DJ amp for $79 bucks at one of the locations)
The point is, with a $300 budget, wouldn't extra carpentry work building a tapped-horn and horn tweeter driver make this a more viable option?
The point is, with a $300 budget, wouldn't extra carpentry work building a tapped-horn and horn tweeter driver make this a more viable option?
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Can't do a tapped horn with a horn tweeter. Not without something in between and a low/mid crossover of maybe 120 Hz at the highest - which means active. You could use an inexpensive 10" like a Dayton or Goldwood PA driver for the mains, but you do have to commit to a bi-amped system to get the benefits of a TH. Cough up another amplifier, and the drivers can be had for $300.
How about an eminence coax and CD combo (10" woofer, 1" CD, @ 1500hz cross) with a recone JBL 2226 on the bottom ?
It's basically a small 2 way box, with a 3 way in reality. It should play plenty loud. Make the 10" sealed on the top chamber and port the JBL2226 @ like 45hz. Could kick a lot of *** for really low cost.
CD is like $80
Woofer is like $60
JBL 2226 recone $150
Not excessive cost considering the capability of that combo, and the simplicity in configuration. They even make stock crossovers for those Eminence parts from the factory to make them work together. It's not hard to roll in a 15" under a 10" either...
It's basically a small 2 way box, with a 3 way in reality. It should play plenty loud. Make the 10" sealed on the top chamber and port the JBL2226 @ like 45hz. Could kick a lot of *** for really low cost.
CD is like $80
Woofer is like $60
JBL 2226 recone $150
Not excessive cost considering the capability of that combo, and the simplicity in configuration. They even make stock crossovers for those Eminence parts from the factory to make them work together. It's not hard to roll in a 15" under a 10" either...
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