Here's a better quality copy.Unfortunately the document quality is not very good, so you need to take your time to go through it.
Also the Oliver amplifier manual - they treated it as just another HP piece of equipment. A model of completeness.
People should built this amp!
Jan
Attachments
Thanks Jan. I’ll update the post on my site.Here's a better quality copy.
Also the Oliver amplifier manual - they treated it as just another HP piece of equipment. A model of completeness.
People should built this amp!
Jan
you can explain to the client that his desire is contrary to the capabilities of his amplifier circuit, for a larger initial current of the output stages, it is necessary to increase the non-linearity of the Bias circuit, because of which there may be effects that from a "clean" class A, you will get a "dirty" class A at will client.However as I said above my client wants about 50 watts of pure class A meaning about 3.5 amps peak of idle current = about 600 watts of idle heat.
In the output stage, the triple to make a current per pair of more than 100-150 mA, with Bias control by feedback on the temperature gradient - this is nonsense.
This is done by a current mirror bridge so that the initial current is independent of the temperature of the device.
Tell your client: His amplifier is a design that has nothing to do with clean or musical sound. Whether class A/B or A or whatever;-)I received an amplifier for repair. There was a lot of DC on the output and the servo could not take care of this. The problem was easy to fix as the diff amps their cascodes and current mirrors did not use matched devices for both the positive and negative complementary front end. I put in matched devices and the the servo took care of the then 10mV offset. Now it is <3mV. It is loosely based on Bob Cordell's output stage with a conventional fron end (Diff amp well degenerated and the VAS runnig at about 20mA. The bias spreader is made from a pair of NPN and PNP TO220 devices which are clamped to one of their respective sex output devices.
The amplifier runs off a +/-90v rail and uses a triple output from page 99 (figure 5.1b) of Bob's first edition book.
The bias spreader uses a 25 turn pot so very fine adjustment is available. The spreader also monitors the emitter voltage of the first pair of drivers which are alos TO-220.
The output devices are 2SC5200 and 2SA1943 all matched. The drivers are the same as the outputs. 0.33R emitter resistors are used with base stoppers of 3R9 on each output device, 4R75 on each driver and 100r on each base of the first triple drivers. there is no oscillation that I can see up to 100MHz.
There are 12 up and 12 down output devices on a massive heatsink! Weighs abour 12Kg alone. The power supply is a switchmode with PFC front end so it is well regulated. Runs at about 70KHz and he uses 35,000mfd on each rail. The PFC supplies the great regulation.
The re of the 12 // devices is small indeed
Now trying to set the bias to allow the amplifier to run in class A up to maybe 50 watts is my client's request. So first I want to set bias so that crossover THD is very small.
Referring to the attched PDF, the crosscoupled resistors on the pre-pre driver is 158R and that of the drivers is 15R (To allow all base charge to be swept away quickly).
Again referring to page 101-103 of Bob's book, he talks about this 26mV across each emitter resistor and having an optimum bais current PER DEVICE of 79mA. With 12 devices that is almost 1amp of idle current. No problem as the power supply and heatsink are up to the task. I checked the bias spreader that it was reducing it's voltage by about 2.2mV/deg C.
This 26mA through each emitter resistor does not ring true to me. What if your resistors are 0.1 ohm then 26mV across each represents 0.26A per device of idle current!
Back to the triple. There are 6Vbe drops so the bias spreader needs to develop at least 3.6 volts + the drops across the 0.33R emitter resistors.
I have a meter from top emitter to bottom emitter which gives me the idle current of one pair of devices. This voltage/0.66 = idle current for one pair.
I have a second meter across the bias spreader.
I have my Audio Precision reading THD and I am also looking at the THD residual on a second scope.
When I try to adjust idle current to be 100mA per device (1.2 amps total) I have to push the bias spreader voltage close to 4 volts. This does not sit well with me.
The THD is quite low at midband (<0.006%) driving an 8 ohm load. At 20KHz it is <0.07% when sweeping power from 1 watt to 350 watts.
However as I said above my client wants about 50 watts of pure class A meaning about 3.5 amps peak of idle current = about 600 watts of idle heat.😎
Look forward to some insight.
I had high hopes that Oliver had designed a good amplifier, but he blew it with CR1 and CR2 across R5 and R6. But, hey, this was 1973. 😉Also the Oliver amplifier manual - they treated it as just another HP piece of equipment. A model of completeness.
People should built this amp!
Ed
CR1 and CR2 handle higher currents. There is a reason why this approach is no longer used. 😉Also emitter power resistors R5 & R6 are 8.2Ω ???
Ed
Transistor bias stabiliser circuits were used even in 1968. but it did take a while for some to cotton on to this. Probably related to the prices of transistors vs diodes back then.CR1 and CR2 handle higher currents. There is a reason why this approach is no longer used. 😉
Ed
It’s really ok. At very low powers, before the diodes conduct, the signal path is through the 8.2 ohm resistors but that quickly transitions to the diodes and the 0.05 ohm resistors.I had high hopes that Oliver had designed a good amplifier, but he blew it with CR1 and CR2 across R5 and R6. But, hey, this was 1973. 😉
Ed
Papa Nelson did that in F5T too. I didn't hear any complains about it.It’s really ok. At very low powers, before the diodes conduct, the signal path is through the 8.2 ohm resistors but that quickly transitions to the diodes and the 0.05 ohm resistors.
It’s really ok. At very low powers, before the diodes conduct, the signal path is through the 8.2 ohm resistors but that quickly transitions to the diodes and the 0.05 ohm resistors.
The diodes introduce two bends in the transfer curve, relying on negative feedback to straighten them out. The bends were unnecessary in the first place. The approach goes into the "bad" category in my criteria.Papa Nelson did that in F5T too. I didn't hear any complains about it.
Ed
Well, we wouldn’t do that today, as is the case with many things from the 1970’s. However, the amp worked well by all accounts. I’ll just leave it there.
Back in 1966, I think, before Bailey published his 30W complementary design, he had published a Ge-based circuit using a transformer drive. To upgrade that to silicon transistors, he used the same trick to stabilise the quiescent curent as the higher Vbe was harder - as is now well known - to control using just resistors, which Ge devices seemed to get away with thanks to their low Vbe. I don't recall reading any reports of that design, so don't know if people who built it with Ge and compared it with Si transistors found crossover distortion to be worse.
However, with a few additional transistors it is quite possible to design a Vbe compensation circuit that allows silicon transistors to be driven from a transformer without using emitter diode, (as I have done) but in those days, transistors were more expensive than diodes.
However, with a few additional transistors it is quite possible to design a Vbe compensation circuit that allows silicon transistors to be driven from a transformer without using emitter diode, (as I have done) but in those days, transistors were more expensive than diodes.
Does anyone have the circuit, or remember, a 10 W per channel amp published in Practical Wireless or Practical Electrinics c 1970 using the AD161 and AD162 as output devices? I remember looking at that circuit as a kid and wishing I could build it 🙂
No, but I did build a circuit using AD161/162. The Mullard "Transistor Audio and Radio Circuits"book included one with a BC108 input, AC128 driver, and AD161/162 output. 15 ohm thermistor and 22 ohm parallel trimpot for bias, 0.5 ohm emitter resistors.
The circuit I built used a Si driver but I used an AC128 for a Vbe bias regulator, mounted on the heatsink, as I was never convinced about a thermistor/resistor combo.
The circuit I built used a Si driver but I used an AC128 for a Vbe bias regulator, mounted on the heatsink, as I was never convinced about a thermistor/resistor combo.
Well, I dunno, but if you write something and 50 years later they still use it and quote you - you've done something right.I had high hopes that Oliver had designed a good amplifier, but he blew it with CR1 and CR2 across R5 and R6. But, hey, this was 1973. 😉
Ed
You think people will still qoute you - or me - in 50 years' time ? 😉
My point was simply that progress is inevitable.Well, I dunno, but if you write something and 50 years later they still use it and quote you - you've done something right.
You think people will still qoute you - or me - in 50 years' time ? 😉
I do expect some of my work to be referenced in 50 years' time (in computer architecture).
Ed
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