I have a set of Infinity IL10's - they have 4 binding posts for bi-amped input and a gold bar that connects them in parallel for standard input.
Is making speakers (2-way) that can be bi-amped as simple as connecting the tweeter crossover to one set of binding posts and the woofer crossover to the other set of posts - and then use them without biamping by using 2 metal bars to connect the posts in parallel, and to bi-amp, simply remove the bars? - or is there more to the picture?
Thanks.
Brian
Is making speakers (2-way) that can be bi-amped as simple as connecting the tweeter crossover to one set of binding posts and the woofer crossover to the other set of posts - and then use them without biamping by using 2 metal bars to connect the posts in parallel, and to bi-amp, simply remove the bars? - or is there more to the picture?
Thanks.
Brian
yes, it is that simple.biff584 said:
both crossover/element combination have separate ground and postive rails. no contact when bar is removed
Is that true that most commercial speakers which have the so call five way binding post are bi-amp ready speakers. I heard some are just for bi-wire, if for bi-amp there may still need to get inside the speakers to disconnect the connection between the low filter and the mid-hi filter, not just by removing the jumper bars. If this is true than I may be in luck, for my pair of Mirage M490i is the same way, but tried contacted Mirage for spec/detail with no luck.
well yes and no.
1. when you biamp there is usually an active XO before the 2 power amps (low and high).
2. what you ar doing here is a half way mix of bi wiring and bi amping. if you feed teh same signal from the pre amp to both power amps and then connect the poweramps to the respective speaker terminals you are still usng teh speaker XO. ideally you shoudl as described in 1 to be a true bi amp.
what you are doing will work, might even sound better than using one amp but does not buy you all the advatages of biamping.
for example why feed the full signal to the tweeter amp if yo are only using the HF part al when you bi amp (using an active XO) since there is no XO between the woofer and amp the amp damping factor improves and it is better able to control the woofer. there are other advatages but i best leave them for others to detail.
1. when you biamp there is usually an active XO before the 2 power amps (low and high).
2. what you ar doing here is a half way mix of bi wiring and bi amping. if you feed teh same signal from the pre amp to both power amps and then connect the poweramps to the respective speaker terminals you are still usng teh speaker XO. ideally you shoudl as described in 1 to be a true bi amp.
what you are doing will work, might even sound better than using one amp but does not buy you all the advatages of biamping.
for example why feed the full signal to the tweeter amp if yo are only using the HF part al when you bi amp (using an active XO) since there is no XO between the woofer and amp the amp damping factor improves and it is better able to control the woofer. there are other advatages but i best leave them for others to detail.
active (line level) xover
Well, a normal xover is designed (and suitable) specially for a type of loudspeaker (driver types, cabinet volume, arrangement).
If I try to biamp with active xo, is it same?
(means different active XO-s for each loudspeaker type)
cutting freq., 6-12-18dB/decade, smoothing LCR etc.
And what is the passive line-level XO?
Any adv-disadv?
Well, a normal xover is designed (and suitable) specially for a type of loudspeaker (driver types, cabinet volume, arrangement).
If I try to biamp with active xo, is it same?
(means different active XO-s for each loudspeaker type)
cutting freq., 6-12-18dB/decade, smoothing LCR etc.
And what is the passive line-level XO?
Any adv-disadv?
Re: active (line level) xover
If you lift the shorting straps and drive the tweeter & its XO with one amp, and the woofer & its XO with another it is called passive bi-amping. It usually requires two identical amplifiers.
This takes you a fraction of the way to active bi-amping (which i will call real biamping). This has much bigger benefits than passive bi-amping because it removes all the reactive components from between the amp and the speaker.
In a passive bi-amp the amp still has to drive the entire frequency range, in an active the amp is band-limited.
An active XO still needs the same sorts of EQ etc that is often built into a passive XO, but it is a lot easier to accomplish -- and you can do things almost impossible with a passive XO.
PLLXO are usually implemented with caps & resistors on the input of the amp. Chokes & caps can also be used. Choke values can be kinda high thou.
dave
If you lift the shorting straps and drive the tweeter & its XO with one amp, and the woofer & its XO with another it is called passive bi-amping. It usually requires two identical amplifiers.
This takes you a fraction of the way to active bi-amping (which i will call real biamping). This has much bigger benefits than passive bi-amping because it removes all the reactive components from between the amp and the speaker.
In a passive bi-amp the amp still has to drive the entire frequency range, in an active the amp is band-limited.
An active XO still needs the same sorts of EQ etc that is often built into a passive XO, but it is a lot easier to accomplish -- and you can do things almost impossible with a passive XO.
PLLXO are usually implemented with caps & resistors on the input of the amp. Chokes & caps can also be used. Choke values can be kinda high thou.
dave
You will generally find me active only in the Solid State and Pass Forums and not in the Loudspeaker Forum. Nevertheless, I thought that I'd add my two cents worth.
Navin, I found your reply correct technically. However the jargon used in Hi-End circles is in slightly different contexts.
Bi-wiring: Source equipment, One Preamp/Poweramp(integrated or separates), TWO pairs of speaker cables - one pair for LF and the other for MF/HF, followed by the built-in passive xover of the speakers. Except at the amp end, the two pairs of speaker cables do not connect anywhere else.
Bi-amping: Same as above, except that TWO AMPLIFIERS are used. The common point ends at the Preamp output to the amplifier inputs. Note that the same passive xover is used. A little more versatile than Bi-wiring (more sonic benefits too) as LF and MF/HF levels can be adjusted by the user. Different amplifiers could be used too. Due to the parallel input impedance of the amps, the Z out of the preamp should be preferably low.
Active Amplification: Active xover(2, 3 or 4 way) succeed the preamp and precedes the relevant amplifiers. Very versatile. Different amps can be used (read, "should be used", in most instances). All kinds of compensation can be actively adopted.
Bela, the passive line level crossover is similar to active amplification with only passive components (as xover elements) in place of the active crossover unit.
Navin, I found your reply correct technically. However the jargon used in Hi-End circles is in slightly different contexts.
Bi-wiring: Source equipment, One Preamp/Poweramp(integrated or separates), TWO pairs of speaker cables - one pair for LF and the other for MF/HF, followed by the built-in passive xover of the speakers. Except at the amp end, the two pairs of speaker cables do not connect anywhere else.
Bi-amping: Same as above, except that TWO AMPLIFIERS are used. The common point ends at the Preamp output to the amplifier inputs. Note that the same passive xover is used. A little more versatile than Bi-wiring (more sonic benefits too) as LF and MF/HF levels can be adjusted by the user. Different amplifiers could be used too. Due to the parallel input impedance of the amps, the Z out of the preamp should be preferably low.
Active Amplification: Active xover(2, 3 or 4 way) succeed the preamp and precedes the relevant amplifiers. Very versatile. Different amps can be used (read, "should be used", in most instances). All kinds of compensation can be actively adopted.
Bela, the passive line level crossover is similar to active amplification with only passive components (as xover elements) in place of the active crossover unit.
Re: active (line level) xover
Bela,
You are right about the crossover being specific to a particular system. To power the driver directly and use a line level crossover , you need to find the electrical response at the driver terminals with the passive crossover in place. Then you will have to build an equivalent line level design. Depending on your crossover, this can vary from being simple to a bit complicated.
But it can be done . Long ago I built a three way active system which sounded very good. I could never equal it with a passive crossover.
I am converting my Tannoy603 to an active system. This one is very easy, There is only one resistor and capacitor in series with the tweeter. The woofer has nothing on it ! The speaker is bi-wire capable and so the drivers have their own terminals. This one is really easy. Remember that tweeters are not uniform impedances and a resistor in series may not work as a simple voltage divider.
Will post details of my project when I get the electronics done.
Cheers.
Bela said:
Bela,
You are right about the crossover being specific to a particular system. To power the driver directly and use a line level crossover , you need to find the electrical response at the driver terminals with the passive crossover in place. Then you will have to build an equivalent line level design. Depending on your crossover, this can vary from being simple to a bit complicated.
But it can be done . Long ago I built a three way active system which sounded very good. I could never equal it with a passive crossover.
I am converting my Tannoy603 to an active system. This one is very easy, There is only one resistor and capacitor in series with the tweeter. The woofer has nothing on it ! The speaker is bi-wire capable and so the drivers have their own terminals. This one is really easy. Remember that tweeters are not uniform impedances and a resistor in series may not work as a simple voltage divider.
Will post details of my project when I get the electronics done.
Cheers.
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