Any recommendations for a woofer that can be used in a three way which sounds good using a first order crossover?
For many years I have owned Gale 401s which use two 8 inch woofer in parallel crossing to a 4.5 inch midrange at about 375 hz.There just seems to be some magic in that arrangement that gives wonderful musical engagement ,dynamics and expression.I have tried to replicate that sort of sound in DIY speakers over the years but never quite got there.
Perhaps somebody has found a woofer or a pair of woofers that will work like those old AR types in the vintage Gales? Or a kit speaker like that?
For many years I have owned Gale 401s which use two 8 inch woofer in parallel crossing to a 4.5 inch midrange at about 375 hz.There just seems to be some magic in that arrangement that gives wonderful musical engagement ,dynamics and expression.I have tried to replicate that sort of sound in DIY speakers over the years but never quite got there.
Perhaps somebody has found a woofer or a pair of woofers that will work like those old AR types in the vintage Gales? Or a kit speaker like that?
Probably the woofers would have had a rather wide frequency response and at 1st order crossover at nearly 400hz they would also " help " in low mid, mid frequencies making the sound" bigger ", " "fuller " . Someone correct me if this isn't the case.
I tried the SB Acoustics 10 inch in the 3 way Meniscus Kairos kit design.Both in the recommended second order design and my own first order experiments.It was very disappointing both generally and especially compared to the Gale 401s.
In my opinion the best 8" all the time! I still have HM170G8 as my ref speaker, two way with RAAL 64-10, if sometimes I move to a bigger room I will put 4 x HM210G6 per box and an RAAL 70-20 next time. Those Audax is an old school very nice and smooth speaker. Soon I will upgrade my ref speaker with 3 more HM170G8 per box so that all 4 goes to the level of RAAL using only one 4.7uF
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/2-jpg.1379623/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/2-jpg.1379623/
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At least it well behaved until 3-4k.
Don't like a lot of power.
https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/woofer/474-scan-speak-22w-8534g00-woofer-8-8-ohm-120-wmax.html
Don't like a lot of power.
https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/woofer/474-scan-speak-22w-8534g00-woofer-8-8-ohm-120-wmax.html
As Markbakk suggests, the cone material is the deciding factor here; most poly & paper cones are suitable. Remember a series inductor will even out any hf rise, and these types of materials have relatively benign distortion behaviour, particularly if you're crossing over at a a reasonably low baffle step frequency.
If I'am correct, it's "acoustic suspension" closed box. You need driver with low Qts, low Fs and medium-to-high Vas for that box type and size.
For first order XO, driver's freq. response without rise towards HF.
Visaton W 200 S, 8ohm is coming to my mind.
For first order XO, driver's freq. response without rise towards HF.
Visaton W 200 S, 8ohm is coming to my mind.
The woofers in the Gales have a Qts of O.56.They are lightly doped paper with foam surrounds.So more medium to high Qts.They are used in a pretty small sealed box which is jammed full of fibreglass batts.So a pretty unusual arrangement.
Yes a possible candidate.I have Paul Kittingers Vianadi design for that woofer which looks pretty interesting.Not first order though.
Visaton W250 sounds good with no filters at all, a first order filter seems like it would be good also. Probably W200 also, but I haven't heard that one.
dont discount a woofer with a big spike up around 3-4k. a first order filter + a zobel to attack that spike might be just as rewarding as an a totally flat woofer with just a first order.
i experienced that with the SB17 CRC 6.5in woofer. wonderful bass, very tight. nasty upper range spike. i needed a 4th order filter to quell it. sounds great but a bit complex (formulaic?) in the uper registers. it was more dynamic as a 2nd order, but had that nasty spike that caused a surprisingly stark harshness that was very apparent. now I am re-exploring that crossover with a zobel on that spike, and I find that I dont need the 4th order filter. it is very natural with 1st order or a very light 2nd order and has better integration with the tweeter.
i experienced that with the SB17 CRC 6.5in woofer. wonderful bass, very tight. nasty upper range spike. i needed a 4th order filter to quell it. sounds great but a bit complex (formulaic?) in the uper registers. it was more dynamic as a 2nd order, but had that nasty spike that caused a surprisingly stark harshness that was very apparent. now I am re-exploring that crossover with a zobel on that spike, and I find that I dont need the 4th order filter. it is very natural with 1st order or a very light 2nd order and has better integration with the tweeter.
I would trust in the potential of Visaton WS20E-8. Soundlabs group has them for AU$ 65 each.
I’m a firm user and believer in a multi sub system for the modal region of 80hz on down so when I choose a woofer, set my sights on drivers that perform well in sealed alignments. Sealed reproduces the dynamics and attack of kick drums and low strings better than anything…..period. With this in mind and your request for a 1st order filter without additional shaping circuits I submit
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...s-prestige-a26re4-h1411-10-paper-cone-woofer/
No cone breakup to deal with and a soft pliable surround that allows the cone to express every bit of detail. It’s actually an 8” driver if you consider the half surround measure as a reference for radiating area. Even without subs, this woofer in a sealed alignment and a small closed space can stand on its own with a typical in room f6 of around 35hz.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...s-prestige-a26re4-h1411-10-paper-cone-woofer/
No cone breakup to deal with and a soft pliable surround that allows the cone to express every bit of detail. It’s actually an 8” driver if you consider the half surround measure as a reference for radiating area. Even without subs, this woofer in a sealed alignment and a small closed space can stand on its own with a typical in room f6 of around 35hz.
Typically a low crossover point.
So with inductor it doesn't matter much. Also off axis 90 degrees will knock off the top end naturally as well , being off axis.
Side mounted woofer would be a consideration. Same concept the crossover has to be low regardless.
Can use series crossover too.
3 way, maybe side mount woofer, then finish with a coaxial for mid and high.
larger mid would help with a low crossover point for woofer
So with inductor it doesn't matter much. Also off axis 90 degrees will knock off the top end naturally as well , being off axis.
Side mounted woofer would be a consideration. Same concept the crossover has to be low regardless.
Can use series crossover too.
3 way, maybe side mount woofer, then finish with a coaxial for mid and high.
larger mid would help with a low crossover point for woofer