Hello, which driver you think would be the best you can put into 50-60l internal enclosure? Lets say up to 300eur. Subwoofer must be able to function properly both for ht and music.Thank you
Hoffman's Iron law
Small, Loud, Low
Pick two.
If just for music, 60 liters may be large enough, but not for HT.
Although some drivers with active feedback may be rather impressive.
Rythmik Audio comes to mind but there are a number of servo driven subs.
Personally I prefer big.
One other possibility is to listen to the sub in the nearfield, IE... sit right next to them.
Better yet, build 2 subs and sit between them.
Headphone subs 🙂
Dave
Small, Loud, Low
Pick two.
If just for music, 60 liters may be large enough, but not for HT.
Although some drivers with active feedback may be rather impressive.
Rythmik Audio comes to mind but there are a number of servo driven subs.
Personally I prefer big.
One other possibility is to listen to the sub in the nearfield, IE... sit right next to them.
Better yet, build 2 subs and sit between them.
Headphone subs 🙂
Dave
thanks for answer. I know 60l is not ideal, but it's still much larger than most of HT package subs. I have a small flat with small livingroom (aprox 4x6m). While rytmik subs seems great, they are a little out of budget, mainly due to shipping to europe. Any other suggestions
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THanks bjorno very much for overwhelming answer🙂, need to do a lot of reading to understand all of those graphs and stuff. How is this speaker doing compared to seasl26roy which is 100e cheaper? (when i think about it again, i am thinking i would rather go closer to 200 than 300e 😛)
Hi,
Best and best value are two different things. The LAB12
in 60L sealed is no slouch, add an amplifier with optional
bass boost for bass tuning options if needed.
rgds, sreten.
Best and best value are two different things. The LAB12
in 60L sealed is no slouch, add an amplifier with optional
bass boost for bass tuning options if needed.
rgds, sreten.
If you're in europe, i really advice another alternative, a poland speaker : W.27.500.8.FCX - G?o?niki najtaniej,kolumny,ko?cówka mocy,kino domowe,subwoofer,samochodowe,zestawy,centralny,efektowy,driver,speakon,estradowe,hifi,wzmacniacz.
Tested with music content, measured with REW, and used each week for 40-800hz crossed with a 2,5" for a bass cabinet, with a class d 250w/8ohm (500w/4ohm) without any problem. Really hard carbon cone, impressive basket design. Even if used for bass, my friends were impressed by how clean the bass range were listening to some djent metal (ultra compressed sound, with low tuning on 5 sting bass + violent, fast drum kick, really hard to make this kind of music sound clean even 10 years listening this kind of stuff ^^)
The spec are real, 13,5 mm xmax is real, tested at short term with a 500w/4ohm amp and 10-30hz pure sinewave. Really impressive for the price (87€ + shipping directly from stx company). The response curve (>100hz) shown on their site is exactly the one i measured. It should help a lot to be crossed.
I was septical before ordering, due to low weight, wich i can't explain, maybe small airgap (6mm?) and/or high flux density magnet... But the result is here.
Since you specified a precise volume, passive radiator should be interesting. STX do not do passive radiators. And when ordering, it's should be more interesting taking all parts at once, limiting shipping cost.
In your price range, i would probably go for a seas design l26roy + their passive radiator as their application note advice : http://www.seas.no/images/stories/design/pdf_datasheet/L26ROY_Application_Note.pdf
And if price is not a concern, i would go for the wavecor too advised by bjorno + their costly passive radiator.
And passive radiators do not suffer of port vent noise/resonnances tuning difficulties. As well as simple closed box of course.
(sorry for my poor english...)
Bjorno, what is the toy graph tool with sound pressure distribution colored graph by frequency shown in your post ???? I didn't see you show this kind of stuff before ...? I do not manage to interpret it, can you help ?
Tested with music content, measured with REW, and used each week for 40-800hz crossed with a 2,5" for a bass cabinet, with a class d 250w/8ohm (500w/4ohm) without any problem. Really hard carbon cone, impressive basket design. Even if used for bass, my friends were impressed by how clean the bass range were listening to some djent metal (ultra compressed sound, with low tuning on 5 sting bass + violent, fast drum kick, really hard to make this kind of music sound clean even 10 years listening this kind of stuff ^^)
The spec are real, 13,5 mm xmax is real, tested at short term with a 500w/4ohm amp and 10-30hz pure sinewave. Really impressive for the price (87€ + shipping directly from stx company). The response curve (>100hz) shown on their site is exactly the one i measured. It should help a lot to be crossed.
I was septical before ordering, due to low weight, wich i can't explain, maybe small airgap (6mm?) and/or high flux density magnet... But the result is here.
Since you specified a precise volume, passive radiator should be interesting. STX do not do passive radiators. And when ordering, it's should be more interesting taking all parts at once, limiting shipping cost.
In your price range, i would probably go for a seas design l26roy + their passive radiator as their application note advice : http://www.seas.no/images/stories/design/pdf_datasheet/L26ROY_Application_Note.pdf
And if price is not a concern, i would go for the wavecor too advised by bjorno + their costly passive radiator.
And passive radiators do not suffer of port vent noise/resonnances tuning difficulties. As well as simple closed box of course.
(sorry for my poor english...)
Bjorno, what is the toy graph tool with sound pressure distribution colored graph by frequency shown in your post ???? I didn't see you show this kind of stuff before ...? I do not manage to interpret it, can you help ?
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Thank you all for answers. I wanted more expensive sub, cause i wanted to jump straight tofinall bass solution given my size restriction, but when i think about it, i think that in my case it would be wiser to go for cheaper - stx solution and go from there, because currently i have nothing to compare to. After building stx, i will know if i want louder or deeper playing sub🙂. I am playing a little with linkwitz transform in winisd, do i understand it correctly i have to look mainly at cone excursion and needed amp power or i need to take another things into consideration?
I' ve done some net browsing and read about possibility of putting larger driver in smaller box and equalizing the low end to get deepest bass even from smaller closed enclosure, which might be the way to go for me, as in general, people talk about closed subs to be somewhat more musical. Can someone please share some light what is the main difference between linkwitz transform, ELF equalization Sub-Woofer Controller and equalization with DSP amplifier like inuke?
Gone a little further with thinking, so to recap:
I am looking for a subwoofer project up to 2cu ft internall, for a livingroom (aprox 6x4 meters) in a flat. Sub should be able to play 20hz reasonably loud in room, but should also be as "musicall" as possible. What i was thinking is, that maybe the best approach would be using Linkwitz transform or ESP like Sub-Woofer Controller Need a little help with choosing the right thing. I am looking for a driver for up to 250eur EU price. What i came up with up until now, is
View image: ult,seas
Grey line is 10" seas l26roy in 2cu ft, 50L bass reflex 22hz, 250w signal (so cone excursion is under xmax), which i find a very good choice for usage i want it for and will go for that if i won't find anything better. Green line is dayton ultimax 15, which i can get for aprox 250e. Dayton has LT set for 35hz and 0,707q, 550w signal (again cone excursion below xmax). As i have very limited knowledge i have few questions:
1- When i am looking at spl curve (within load not exceeding xmax), i am looking at it as a maximum curve and i can get any curve under it with right EQ?
2- In column Amplifier apparent load, dayton has a max at 1200W, is it fine to use it like this on normal movie/music content if the driver haw 800rms 1600peak on paper?
3- If yes, will behringer inuke 1000 or 3000 handle it?
4- My main question is, is the dayton aproach better then seas, ot what better solution i can get in that size/price range ?
5- What other aspects in project i whould look at ? - My knowledge goes up to SPL curve and thats all (i don't know what qtc to preffer so i entered the 0,707)
6- dayton has the possiblility to play from 30hz up even more loud than seas, which i might use on occasional music only content when i take it to barbeque party or something, am i wrong in some way thinking that?
7- i've read something about smaller sub drivers sounding better in smaller room and integrating better with smaller mains, any thoughts to this?
I am looking for a subwoofer project up to 2cu ft internall, for a livingroom (aprox 6x4 meters) in a flat. Sub should be able to play 20hz reasonably loud in room, but should also be as "musicall" as possible. What i was thinking is, that maybe the best approach would be using Linkwitz transform or ESP like Sub-Woofer Controller Need a little help with choosing the right thing. I am looking for a driver for up to 250eur EU price. What i came up with up until now, is
View image: ult,seas
Grey line is 10" seas l26roy in 2cu ft, 50L bass reflex 22hz, 250w signal (so cone excursion is under xmax), which i find a very good choice for usage i want it for and will go for that if i won't find anything better. Green line is dayton ultimax 15, which i can get for aprox 250e. Dayton has LT set for 35hz and 0,707q, 550w signal (again cone excursion below xmax). As i have very limited knowledge i have few questions:
1- When i am looking at spl curve (within load not exceeding xmax), i am looking at it as a maximum curve and i can get any curve under it with right EQ?
2- In column Amplifier apparent load, dayton has a max at 1200W, is it fine to use it like this on normal movie/music content if the driver haw 800rms 1600peak on paper?
3- If yes, will behringer inuke 1000 or 3000 handle it?
4- My main question is, is the dayton aproach better then seas, ot what better solution i can get in that size/price range ?
5- What other aspects in project i whould look at ? - My knowledge goes up to SPL curve and thats all (i don't know what qtc to preffer so i entered the 0,707)
6- dayton has the possiblility to play from 30hz up even more loud than seas, which i might use on occasional music only content when i take it to barbeque party or something, am i wrong in some way thinking that?
7- i've read something about smaller sub drivers sounding better in smaller room and integrating better with smaller mains, any thoughts to this?
i've been modeling in winisd this driver in this unstandard enclosure. I've used Linkwitz transform from F0 47,25 Q0 1,06 to Fp 35 Qp 0,707 and the curve looks ok, also does SPL. I can get simmilar SPL curve results from this box with vented 12"drivers, which have quite high air vent speed at max volume, also transient response. Theoretically Ultimax 15 should sound better as it is closed box, which many consider more musical somehow.
My question is, if there are going to be any other factors to consider on sound quality. Will the 15" squeezed in such small enclosure and equalized sound in some way worse than driver that is made for smaller enclosure ? (matching spl level and curve, or lets say sinewave ), i mean if there can be some dissortion, bass flappyness or something i don't see on winisd model.
My question is, if there are going to be any other factors to consider on sound quality. Will the 15" squeezed in such small enclosure and equalized sound in some way worse than driver that is made for smaller enclosure ? (matching spl level and curve, or lets say sinewave ), i mean if there can be some dissortion, bass flappyness or something i don't see on winisd model.
Many folks will tell you that closed box is "tighter". I won't, though I prefer them.
Basically, everything is a compromise. Vented boxes are resonant systems where the resonance is used to augment the output. Sealed boxes are resonant systems where we attempt to damp the resonance.
Vented boxes can output more SPL at the resonance point, but MAY take longer to achieve that increased output.
Sealed boxes are more convenient to equalize to whatever lowest frequency you want to reproduce, where vented boxes "unload" the driver below the port tuning.
Which you choose really depends on what you plan to listen to and how loud you want to listen to it.
Basically, everything is a compromise. Vented boxes are resonant systems where the resonance is used to augment the output. Sealed boxes are resonant systems where we attempt to damp the resonance.
Vented boxes can output more SPL at the resonance point, but MAY take longer to achieve that increased output.
Sealed boxes are more convenient to equalize to whatever lowest frequency you want to reproduce, where vented boxes "unload" the driver below the port tuning.
Which you choose really depends on what you plan to listen to and how loud you want to listen to it.
thanks. Basically my concern now is that by putting 15"ultimax in 2cuft, i get reducement in quality that i dont see on winisd stats. Is that possible?
Depends on how you determine "quality". I'm quite happy with my subs in small boxes, but I admit I've not taken distortion measurements.\
If "quality" means, "sounds good, plays loud enough for me, and plays clean, tight bass", then a small sealed box may well do it for you. If, on the other hand, "quality" means loudest 30Hz possible, then vented/ported or passive radiator will do it better for you.
If "quality" means, "sounds good, plays loud enough for me, and plays clean, tight bass", then a small sealed box may well do it for you. If, on the other hand, "quality" means loudest 30Hz possible, then vented/ported or passive radiator will do it better for you.
i know how loud it plays @20,@30...hz, so i am not concerned with this. I have also projected qtc and transient response from winisd. my concern is if this solution doesn't have any other aspects where sound gets bad, for example data-bass guys have 15 different charts and measurements😛 i am worried that one of those might be terrible and i get somehow shitty sound. Is there an inclination of something going wrong whne putting 15"in 2cu?
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