I've owned LWE III's, KLH23's, Peavey T300 projectors, and Peavey SP2-XT's. I like the latter better for everything. The Hammond organ has more bass,for more time-aligned bass buy Peavey SP7's with the same tweeter and two 15" woofers. My voice need equalization and reverb to sound like anything, it is the fault of my voice, not the flat speaker. I think start with flat response speakers (including the room if possible) and tweak to fit as necessary. The SP2's are two way, one crossover, and have jacks to allow active crossover if you can do a better job than they can internally. Intersting about EV designers, Keriwena. My "who was first" thread got a lot of VOTT lore from experts, but nothing about that.
Just a guess, but I'd bet that 90% of vocalists out there wouldn't allow their voice to go barefoot. I'm going to ask my pro son in law that. He records tons of acts.
I'm going to do some homework on PA's and I'll have more questions I'm sure. The SP-2's are out of my intended budget, but we'll see. Those SP-7's would be something. I'd have to move to the country! I'll bet audiologists love them.
Peavey SP
The SP2's seem to have a pretty long history. I've seen reference to SP-2 xt, SP-2g. Peavey's website only mentions sp-2 (no suffix). Seattle CraigsLiist has a pair of SP-2 for $650. They look like they may be an older version with no grill or anything. What are the differences and what do you think of this ad?DJ, Band, Club, Stage Equipment
The SP2's seem to have a pretty long history. I've seen reference to SP-2 xt, SP-2g. Peavey's website only mentions sp-2 (no suffix). Seattle CraigsLiist has a pair of SP-2 for $650. They look like they may be an older version with no grill or anything. What are the differences and what do you think of this ad?DJ, Band, Club, Stage Equipment
I heard it from the Peavey rep when the SP1s were introduced in the mid-70s. He said Hartley was able to woo them away with promises of better quality control. I found it interesting because I had a pair of Sentry IVs at home.
Peavey gear is rubbish...
The german made speakers i mentioned above
use an Al cast 400W RMS EV for basses, an Audax
medium and depending on the year, a ribbon tweeter..
The later models have way better speakers from PHL Audio..
http://www.phlaudio.com/
The german made speakers i mentioned above
use an Al cast 400W RMS EV for basses, an Audax
medium and depending on the year, a ribbon tweeter..
The later models have way better speakers from PHL Audio..
http://www.phlaudio.com/
Ok I will let you guys in on some secrets.
The Altec A7 woofer was a 515. In the "B" version it was a very nice sounding woofer. The only slight disadvantage was maximum power was in reality about 15 watts. (some may claim as high as 60). The compression driver handled 10 (or 30) The best music reproducing version was the A7-800. All of the parts and complete speakers go for ridiculous sums of money. The other bad news is even though they sound nice they measure awful by today's instruments and standards.
However you can get very similar and perhaps even better built copies from the old TOA product line! They are extremely similar to Altec speaker systems sell for under $200 typically on eBay. Or you can buy the pieces and build your own boxes.
Hartley's guys made similar products but with different design goals and pricing. (Much less expensive.)
Then there are speakers you would have to build yourself such as the Paragon!
The Altec A7 woofer was a 515. In the "B" version it was a very nice sounding woofer. The only slight disadvantage was maximum power was in reality about 15 watts. (some may claim as high as 60). The compression driver handled 10 (or 30) The best music reproducing version was the A7-800. All of the parts and complete speakers go for ridiculous sums of money. The other bad news is even though they sound nice they measure awful by today's instruments and standards.
However you can get very similar and perhaps even better built copies from the old TOA product line! They are extremely similar to Altec speaker systems sell for under $200 typically on eBay. Or you can buy the pieces and build your own boxes.
Hartley's guys made similar products but with different design goals and pricing. (Much less expensive.)
Then there are speakers you would have to build yourself such as the Paragon!
Let the flames begin!
Those speakers don't seem to available in the US, but may be a good choice elsewhere.
Hey, I'll listen to any ideas.. I should mention that a good diy design would be okay too, but commercial speakers readily available on the used market is probably the best idea for me (at this time anyway).
Can you elaborate a bit on the TOA line you refer to and the diy designs and drivers necessary to replicate?
The SP2s in this ad are from the seventies, with the early wide mouth horn. I haven't seen specs on these and they go as low as $300 a pair here, so don't expect much good sound.
The Peavey website under the product support button has two spec documents for SP2's. One is the 1998 SP2-XT, and the other is the 2004 design SP2-G. I own a pair of the first, probably paid $600 for the pair, and have seen them as low as $500 a pair. I think the 1 W flatness chart is excellent, also the distortion chart at 1 W. Jensens may sound good, I don't know because they don't sell here, but this level of spec is not on their datasheet. The SP2-XT has a squared off plastic horn. The later SP2-G has a one piece molded plastic horn of curved design, maybe parabolic, and I've never seen them for less than $300 ea here unless blown. Because of the parts availability, blown ones are an option for a diy'er.
Wahab probably hears Peavey product from the Greek factory. I'm not sure quality control there would be the same as Mississippi. QC testing is the difference between a home-made system, and a package where ever bit of batting is carefully thought out. You can dupicate those results diy, but I'm not trusting any mike cheaper than a neumann myself to do the testing. Peavey also sells some PA only amplifiers (crossover distortion at less than 100 W) and some blast them out PA speakers that don't pretend to be useful for piano.
Like I say, Mackie Jensen and Yamaha sell similar products that I haven't seen spec sheets as complete, but might sound good. Don't see them here, shipping is important in speakers this heavy. Yamaha does sell here, but at quite a premium price to people that believe only the experts in Japan can make quality music gear.
I've heard Bose & Yorktown here, and don't like them. If EV has a product that sounds as good as the SP2 or SP7, I didn't see it at the store.
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I doubt that any of us can afford them but they are piano brand speakers:
6moons industry features: Lyngdorf's Steinway Model D
6moons industry features: Lyngdorf's Steinway Model D
Very interesting I remember quite a few years back that the Duntech speakers had claimed to be the most acurate speakers in the world starting at a measly $10,000 a peice!
I am still try to find that parts express article as I am very impressed with the spec's of their Dayton RS series of drivers especialy their 2" dome midrange when mated with their dome tweeter although some prefer the silk dome. jer
I am still try to find that parts express article as I am very impressed with the spec's of their Dayton RS series of drivers especialy their 2" dome midrange when mated with their dome tweeter although some prefer the silk dome. jer
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Well, thanks for bringing us what is probably the ultimate. I couldn't even find a reference to prices anywhere. They're probably made to order.
What I find interesting is that they are open baffle designs and they describe why. Interesting.
I think I want one of those Steinway D pianos. I'll start saving up the $148,000 right now. I wonder if that includes S&H?
Yeh! If you can find one as I am not sure if the company still exsists or how many were actualy made. jer
The VMPS TOWER II was another fabulous speaker system that I drooled over for years
They claim to have the lowest THD for a subwoofer like less than .5% thd down to 20Hz. jer
They claim to have the lowest THD for a subwoofer like less than .5% thd down to 20Hz. jer
Or perhaps Linkwitz Orion Buying ORION in US
for this application?
I keep going back to OB (even the ESL) in my mind even after all this talk about horns, although one thing about an acoustic grand piano especially, and maybe low register organ is that you feel it as much as hear it which I think is a pretty important factor for this application. You'd probably have to have some pretty good bass augmentation with an OB. Otherwise, maybe that's a good argument for a horn. Just thinking out loud. I tend to ramble sometimes...
What is it about the RS series that would make them good for this? I don;t know anything about them at all.
for this application?
I keep going back to OB (even the ESL) in my mind even after all this talk about horns, although one thing about an acoustic grand piano especially, and maybe low register organ is that you feel it as much as hear it which I think is a pretty important factor for this application. You'd probably have to have some pretty good bass augmentation with an OB. Otherwise, maybe that's a good argument for a horn. Just thinking out loud. I tend to ramble sometimes...
What is it about the RS series that would make them good for this? I don;t know anything about them at all.
Perhaps we should reconsider the planar designs too. Jarvissound says he uses Synthogy Ivory Grand which is an expensive plugin, through Magnepan 1.6 (probably augmented heavily) and swears by it. It certainly would be accurate, and with proper bass it may be just the ticket. BTW, what is a Butch amp?
I'm going to go play with my guitars now for a while. I have to leave room in the budget for a Tele, too, dang it.
I'm going to go play with my guitars now for a while. I have to leave room in the budget for a Tele, too, dang it.
The RS series of drivers seem to have some of the lowest THD figures for a very reasonable price compared to ScanSpeak, Focal,and Audex and a few others while having a great power handling aswell.
The best bass cabinet I had ever made was an OB design that I threw together one day to complement my radio shack 18" sub woofer.
It used 6 X 6.5" radioshack woofers in a 3X2 configuration.
The thing was amazing and out performed the 18" that it sat on top of.
The bass was super clean and and super low with no boomyness because it was on open box that the drivers would just fit in, and was 18" deep.
I had a back on it and was going to use a port.
But, one day when I was messing around with it, I had discovered how great the preasures were inside the box due to the large surface area of the 6 drivers that I decided to leave the back off and thats the way it stayed.
It coupled to the room very nicely as it was 3.5 feet off of the ground (chest level).
I used to spend hours playing with the signal generator doing sweeps at the lowest frequency's starting at 10hz.
It seemed to be exteremly flat, although, I didn't measure it with one of the good micrphones that I did have back then.
I did use my little RS SPL meter though.
This was my bass rig that I used with an AMPEG V4B.
I had a bass player friend, who's band used to practice at our place alot, tell me that he liked it better than his Trace Elliot setup.
And used it all the time.
I questioned this and he swore to me that he was telling the truth.
I did use that setup on outside gigs on several occasions ,and, it had no problem holding its own infact proved to be to much at times.
That cabinet disappeared one day along with my marshall amplifier.
I was going to build another one but radio shack had quit selling speaker drivers alltogher.
I can only imagine how it would have performed had I used a long throw driver with a large Xmax.
I suspect that I should get near that performance with the 3 X 8's per side.
My next OB design will be two cabinets with 3 X 8inch radioshack PRO-CSW800 subwoofers in each cabinet.
They are great little drivers and I picked a bunch of them up for $15 as sellouts.
I modeled them in a ported box with an electronic assisted filter flat to 25hz at 118db for the six drivers.
I will try both configurations as I am planning the build to be used with a 4' esl panel.
jer
The best bass cabinet I had ever made was an OB design that I threw together one day to complement my radio shack 18" sub woofer.
It used 6 X 6.5" radioshack woofers in a 3X2 configuration.
The thing was amazing and out performed the 18" that it sat on top of.
The bass was super clean and and super low with no boomyness because it was on open box that the drivers would just fit in, and was 18" deep.
I had a back on it and was going to use a port.
But, one day when I was messing around with it, I had discovered how great the preasures were inside the box due to the large surface area of the 6 drivers that I decided to leave the back off and thats the way it stayed.
It coupled to the room very nicely as it was 3.5 feet off of the ground (chest level).
I used to spend hours playing with the signal generator doing sweeps at the lowest frequency's starting at 10hz.
It seemed to be exteremly flat, although, I didn't measure it with one of the good micrphones that I did have back then.
I did use my little RS SPL meter though.
This was my bass rig that I used with an AMPEG V4B.
I had a bass player friend, who's band used to practice at our place alot, tell me that he liked it better than his Trace Elliot setup.
And used it all the time.
I questioned this and he swore to me that he was telling the truth.
I did use that setup on outside gigs on several occasions ,and, it had no problem holding its own infact proved to be to much at times.
That cabinet disappeared one day along with my marshall amplifier.
I was going to build another one but radio shack had quit selling speaker drivers alltogher.
I can only imagine how it would have performed had I used a long throw driver with a large Xmax.
I suspect that I should get near that performance with the 3 X 8's per side.
My next OB design will be two cabinets with 3 X 8inch radioshack PRO-CSW800 subwoofers in each cabinet.
They are great little drivers and I picked a bunch of them up for $15 as sellouts.
I modeled them in a ported box with an electronic assisted filter flat to 25hz at 118db for the six drivers.
I will try both configurations as I am planning the build to be used with a 4' esl panel.
jer
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