Do all blank CDs sound the same?
Are gold/purple discs better than silver (colored) discs?
Will sound improve if the bottom/top (of the disc) is black?
If so, which of the following would (in theory) sound best?
MOBILE FIDELITY GOLD- Ultradisc™ 24 KT Gold CD-R (each) 650 mb - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, Inc.
MAM/MITSUI GOLD- MAM-A Mitsui Medical Grade Gold Archival CD-R-100 disc spindle at Discount Prices
MEMOREX BLACK- CD-R Memorex audio (Pack de 30). chez Pany
DOUBLE-SIDED BLACK- 500-Pak =DOUBLE-SIDED BLACK/BLACK= PRODISC 80-Min CDRs! - eBay (item 300262112437 end time Jan-19-10 23:45:07 PST)
VINYL CD- Digital Vinyl CD-Râ„¢ 80MIN 700MB 52X 10pk Jewel Cases
Are gold/purple discs better than silver (colored) discs?
Will sound improve if the bottom/top (of the disc) is black?
If so, which of the following would (in theory) sound best?
MOBILE FIDELITY GOLD- Ultradisc™ 24 KT Gold CD-R (each) 650 mb - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, Inc.
MAM/MITSUI GOLD- MAM-A Mitsui Medical Grade Gold Archival CD-R-100 disc spindle at Discount Prices
MEMOREX BLACK- CD-R Memorex audio (Pack de 30). chez Pany
DOUBLE-SIDED BLACK- 500-Pak =DOUBLE-SIDED BLACK/BLACK= PRODISC 80-Min CDRs! - eBay (item 300262112437 end time Jan-19-10 23:45:07 PST)
VINYL CD- Digital Vinyl CD-Râ„¢ 80MIN 700MB 52X 10pk Jewel Cases
I usually use a well known brand..simply because if something goes wrong in the final burn it should be my fault..write speed to high for processor that sort of thing. I do sometimes us a cheaper not well known brand for mp3 and so far they have been ok. Difficult ..not the answer you were looking for but trial may be the only answer. Regards
Frundle- Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Three reasons for my original post:
1. Many audiophiles believe darker (i.e. black/gold/purple) cds sound better
2. Some believe a dark top will improve a lasers ability to read/track info
3. Some believe dark cds can cause (some) lasers to misread information
Voodoo science?
Improved laser tracker?
Reduction in scattered light?
I have no idea 😱
Thought a few people would have "chimed-in" by now...
Three reasons for my original post:
1. Many audiophiles believe darker (i.e. black/gold/purple) cds sound better
2. Some believe a dark top will improve a lasers ability to read/track info
3. Some believe dark cds can cause (some) lasers to misread information
Voodoo science?
Improved laser tracker?
Reduction in scattered light?
I have no idea 😱
Thought a few people would have "chimed-in" by now...
Other than having some defective disks with a high bit error rate I can’t say that I’ve actually noticed any difference in sound character between different types.
Read back the data after writing to make sure it was written correctly. It does not guarantee that another drive will read it correctly, however. Back when I repaired computers a lot, I often had to swap the CD drive with one I kept for that purpose because the one already in the system would not read CD-RWs.
At least modern motherboards can boot from USB...
At least modern motherboards can boot from USB...
Jitter and C1 values can be measured, but there's always the question of -
1. At how much does it matter
2. How does it translate into sound quality (since non-perfect reproduction of sound does sound good, as some members here have demostrated)
3. If it can be detected, measure, and error-corrected, does it still count as an error?
I won't say my opinion on this, because I only understand this till the bit level, and at this level all properly-burnt/pressed discs are the same as shown by matching EAC checksums across the internet. So obviously anything different happens below being bit-accurate. (It's the same with SPDIF isn't it?)
1. At how much does it matter
2. How does it translate into sound quality (since non-perfect reproduction of sound does sound good, as some members here have demostrated)
3. If it can be detected, measure, and error-corrected, does it still count as an error?
I won't say my opinion on this, because I only understand this till the bit level, and at this level all properly-burnt/pressed discs are the same as shown by matching EAC checksums across the internet. So obviously anything different happens below being bit-accurate. (It's the same with SPDIF isn't it?)
CDRs sound different
CDR blanks sound different. I like the Mitsui Gold and gold audio. even those two are quite different and the advantages come down to flavors. Neither one better than the other. I like the Gold. Mitsui silver are more reasonably priced and still a cut above a Staples or Memorex. I have never tried any dark discs. A good digital out from a hard drive is better still.
CDR blanks sound different. I like the Mitsui Gold and gold audio. even those two are quite different and the advantages come down to flavors. Neither one better than the other. I like the Gold. Mitsui silver are more reasonably priced and still a cut above a Staples or Memorex. I have never tried any dark discs. A good digital out from a hard drive is better still.
Assuming the recordable CD is written correctly - i.e. no bit errors and correct CIRC, and the player is capable of reading the recordable media with a low enough bit error rate that can be dealt with by the CIRC, one disc is going to sound like another. There's nothing special about an audio CD vs. a data CD - it is all just data with error check / correction codes. If you believe otherwise, then I have some special green pens to sell you - just run the green pen around the edge of the CD to experience dramatically improved air and space between instruments and greater transparency. Smoother treble too. Only $99.99 each.
I had a couple of spindles of TDK gold from a well know melbourne chain a couple of years ago - one day I noticed a hole in the silvered reflective layer. I then held a few up to the light and they all had multiple pin holes. I was most suprised as I believed that TDK would be a reputable brand. Counterfeit? Don't know.
So I swapped to the Sony silver ones as I figured that they'd have to be OK. However I did check out some TDK gold's a month or so ago at work and they seemed OK.
Note that I could not hear any problems with the TDKs...... I just didn't want to take any chances.
I suggest that you occasionally hold a blank up to the light and check them out.
So I swapped to the Sony silver ones as I figured that they'd have to be OK. However I did check out some TDK gold's a month or so ago at work and they seemed OK.
Note that I could not hear any problems with the TDKs...... I just didn't want to take any chances.
I suggest that you occasionally hold a blank up to the light and check them out.
Actually... TDK isn't really reputable, in the recordable optical media market. 😀 Decent, maybe.
If you have a compatible drive you should download CDSpeed and run some tests. Wonder how a disc with holes would fare.
I think it'd be dead for data but if you can't hear any difference... this deserves a scan. Back to my previous post above. 😛
If you have a compatible drive you should download CDSpeed and run some tests. Wonder how a disc with holes would fare.
I think it'd be dead for data but if you can't hear any difference... this deserves a scan. Back to my previous post above. 😛
For what it's worth I use Maxell CDR's and some Sony and Philips and haven't had any issues at all. Probably burned around 200 or so over the last few years.
On a technical level I have burned discs at differing speeds, and then examined the recovered RF (or eye pattern) on playback on a normal CD player and find for me using my laptop to burn them that the highest speed gives by far the best eye pattern.
Which goes against what some say...
🙂
On a technical level I have burned discs at differing speeds, and then examined the recovered RF (or eye pattern) on playback on a normal CD player and find for me using my laptop to burn them that the highest speed gives by far the best eye pattern.
Which goes against what some say...
🙂
Burns sound better than original CD and best at slowest speed
Two other listening comparisons I did in addition to the different blanks showed that even with a mid performance blank such as the Mitsui Silver, the CDR will sound better than the original CD and the lowest burn rate, 4X (I wish I could do 2X or 1X but my burner wont support it) sounds better than 24X.
Two other listening comparisons I did in addition to the different blanks showed that even with a mid performance blank such as the Mitsui Silver, the CDR will sound better than the original CD and the lowest burn rate, 4X (I wish I could do 2X or 1X but my burner wont support it) sounds better than 24X.
A few more bits of info...
-A HUGE number of Sony Play Station (2) video consoles are unable to play BLUE (bottomed) video games! How do I know? 1. My Brother owns a console that won't play these games 2. A quick google search shows he is not the only one... NOTE: My Brother's PS2 was essentially new! The video game he was unable to play was brand new!!! play station 2 won't read blue discs - Google Search
-Many computers (presumably older models) sometimes have issues with black cds/dvs
From the Mobile Fidelity website:
"Gold coating also eliminates the pinholes common to aluminum discs, which require error-correction on the part of compact disc players."
xeon-networks (pro/con)
Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab FAQ
Gold oxidizes 10 times slower than that of aluminum... gold CDs will last far longer without suffering sound degradation than will their aluminum counterparts... Gold is more reflective and coats much more evenly than does aluminum. ...gold CDs are less susceptible to pinhole-sized errors that can plague an aluminum-made CD... In theory, a properly manufactured CD, pressed in gold or aluminum, requires no error correction (sometimes called oversampling), by the playback unit on which it is played. Compact discs made using gold are much more likely to achieve this potential of quality. Beyond these potential benefits, the use of gold in a CD is primarily a consumer preference and a marketing gimmick. It is undisputed that gold CD’s sound better..., but the reason for this has much more to do with the processes developed and employed in the remastering process than with the actual gold used in the pressing of the CD itself
MusicDirect (sales pitch)
MUSICDIRECT - MOBILE FIDELITY - ULTRADISC 24K GOLD CD-R SPINDLE (25 DISCS) CDR
...Excellent reflectivity, are non corrosive, and have dramatically enhanced resistance to light and heat. Instantaneous pit burning (burst burning) for superior pit formation and extremely low to no error rate; and an added, patented, scratch resistant, protective surface. Due to these features, little if any error correction is required upon retrieval of information, producing precise reproduction of stored data...
DYE: 24KT Gold ULTRADISC CD-R utilizes a patented photosensitive dye which ensures accurate burning and stability, plus exceptional longevity and durability.
Accurate Burning: ...(MF offers) only slower speed (1-12X) CD-Rs. "...real-time burning has always yielded superior results. Higher burning rates cause errors and do not allow for proper pit formation. Furthermore, higher speeds cause vibration in the drive when burning the disc, thereby increasing jitter. In order to attain even higher burning accuracy and overall quality, a specially formulated dye was created for these slow-burn, precision ULTRADISC CD-Rs.
Accurate and Precise Information Retrieval
Specialized dye reacts more quickly to the writing laser than do other dyes. It reacts in a 'burst' mode instead of the sluggish 'melt' mode. Due to this instantaneous reaction, precise pit edges are formed. This is crucial for the laser pickup to accurately interpret the information, and thereby reducing or eliminating the use of interpolation/error correction circuitry. Additionally, a specially formulated, black ink is used to coat one side of the disc in order to reduce stray reflections which could alter readings.
Have yet to uncover any EVIDENCE colored disc improve sound! 😱
I plan on purchasing a few black, gold and (hopefully) vinyl discs this weekend.
I plan on burning them at the slowest speed possible
I will be sure to share my "observations" in a week or so.
(More of a curiosity than a quest for better sound)
-A HUGE number of Sony Play Station (2) video consoles are unable to play BLUE (bottomed) video games! How do I know? 1. My Brother owns a console that won't play these games 2. A quick google search shows he is not the only one... NOTE: My Brother's PS2 was essentially new! The video game he was unable to play was brand new!!! play station 2 won't read blue discs - Google Search
-Many computers (presumably older models) sometimes have issues with black cds/dvs
From the Mobile Fidelity website:
"Gold coating also eliminates the pinholes common to aluminum discs, which require error-correction on the part of compact disc players."
xeon-networks (pro/con)
Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab FAQ
Gold oxidizes 10 times slower than that of aluminum... gold CDs will last far longer without suffering sound degradation than will their aluminum counterparts... Gold is more reflective and coats much more evenly than does aluminum. ...gold CDs are less susceptible to pinhole-sized errors that can plague an aluminum-made CD... In theory, a properly manufactured CD, pressed in gold or aluminum, requires no error correction (sometimes called oversampling), by the playback unit on which it is played. Compact discs made using gold are much more likely to achieve this potential of quality. Beyond these potential benefits, the use of gold in a CD is primarily a consumer preference and a marketing gimmick. It is undisputed that gold CD’s sound better..., but the reason for this has much more to do with the processes developed and employed in the remastering process than with the actual gold used in the pressing of the CD itself
MusicDirect (sales pitch)
MUSICDIRECT - MOBILE FIDELITY - ULTRADISC 24K GOLD CD-R SPINDLE (25 DISCS) CDR
...Excellent reflectivity, are non corrosive, and have dramatically enhanced resistance to light and heat. Instantaneous pit burning (burst burning) for superior pit formation and extremely low to no error rate; and an added, patented, scratch resistant, protective surface. Due to these features, little if any error correction is required upon retrieval of information, producing precise reproduction of stored data...
DYE: 24KT Gold ULTRADISC CD-R utilizes a patented photosensitive dye which ensures accurate burning and stability, plus exceptional longevity and durability.
Accurate Burning: ...(MF offers) only slower speed (1-12X) CD-Rs. "...real-time burning has always yielded superior results. Higher burning rates cause errors and do not allow for proper pit formation. Furthermore, higher speeds cause vibration in the drive when burning the disc, thereby increasing jitter. In order to attain even higher burning accuracy and overall quality, a specially formulated dye was created for these slow-burn, precision ULTRADISC CD-Rs.
Accurate and Precise Information Retrieval
Specialized dye reacts more quickly to the writing laser than do other dyes. It reacts in a 'burst' mode instead of the sluggish 'melt' mode. Due to this instantaneous reaction, precise pit edges are formed. This is crucial for the laser pickup to accurately interpret the information, and thereby reducing or eliminating the use of interpolation/error correction circuitry. Additionally, a specially formulated, black ink is used to coat one side of the disc in order to reduce stray reflections which could alter readings.
Have yet to uncover any EVIDENCE colored disc improve sound! 😱
I plan on purchasing a few black, gold and (hopefully) vinyl discs this weekend.
I plan on burning them at the slowest speed possible
I will be sure to share my "observations" in a week or so.
(More of a curiosity than a quest for better sound)
I have tried all the CD-Rs that you mentioned except the double sided black, and the Mobile Fidelity disc sounds the best to me. The Mami gold also sounds good, but different. The disc you like best will probably depend on your system and your personal taste.
This wouldn't become a cdfreaks thread would it? Lots of info that you're looking for is available and greatly discussed in the abovementioned forum. 🙂
Re: PS2 and disc color, the PS2's laser is weak, as all consoles' (and car player, etc) are. Give it something with low reflectivity, and it won't be able to read. As i recall, black is best, gold is next, then silver, light blue, vaguely recall either dark blue or green fighting for last place.
BUT, this is just a reference only, it does not ultimately decide the quality of burn, longevity or readability. Taiyo Yuden is the top in quality, but they use green for their CD-R, and I've never had problem with them being read on anything. Bad quality gold Prodisc, a lot of problem.
"Gold coating also eliminates the pinholes common to aluminum discs"
Not really. They also didn't mention that gold also retains the ability to flake off CD-Rs.
@Mooly: I find that different disc and burner combinations burn best at different speeds, and need not necessarily be slow. I've got scans showing extra C1/2 (or PIO/PIF for DVD) errors when burning at slower speeds, eventually I settled for 24x for CD-R and 8x for DVD-R. I also noted that cheaper discs and burners tend to do better at lower speeds which the good discs and burners don't.
Re: PS2 and disc color, the PS2's laser is weak, as all consoles' (and car player, etc) are. Give it something with low reflectivity, and it won't be able to read. As i recall, black is best, gold is next, then silver, light blue, vaguely recall either dark blue or green fighting for last place.
BUT, this is just a reference only, it does not ultimately decide the quality of burn, longevity or readability. Taiyo Yuden is the top in quality, but they use green for their CD-R, and I've never had problem with them being read on anything. Bad quality gold Prodisc, a lot of problem.
"Gold coating also eliminates the pinholes common to aluminum discs"
Not really. They also didn't mention that gold also retains the ability to flake off CD-Rs.
@Mooly: I find that different disc and burner combinations burn best at different speeds, and need not necessarily be slow. I've got scans showing extra C1/2 (or PIO/PIF for DVD) errors when burning at slower speeds, eventually I settled for 24x for CD-R and 8x for DVD-R. I also noted that cheaper discs and burners tend to do better at lower speeds which the good discs and burners don't.
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