True, isn't it? I mean, if you shelled out multi-kilo dollars for a power amp and found that it changed its sound with different mains cables, wouldn't you feel cheated? I certainly would!
Jan
Cheated? Cause life is unfair? Or cause common engineering knowledge has little relevance to any product above midfi level?
Hearing is really not so hard, it only requires the ability to suspend pre-established dogma and open one's mind. Do it for yourself, no one needs to know 🙂
Hearing is really not so hard, it only requires the ability to suspend pre-established dogma and open one's mind. Do it for yourself, no one needs to know 🙂
The OP has had answers from scientists and alchemists. The thread has nowhere to go now, apart from wandering around in the usual circles.
There's a whole lot of expectation bias in this realm.
The standard mythology of wire/cable in audio tweakery is that it must be something exotic and probably expensive or it will totally screw up audio signals...so how can it be that RG-59 with its copper clad steel center conductor works just fine for cable TV signals?
Mike
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No, I mean, if someone designs an amp with a power supply that is so badly guarded from mains junk that a mains cable changes its sound, what an incompetent design that is!
Any designer worth his salt knows how to prevent that.
Jan
I wish i could live in your tidy, logical universe where common engineering dogma explains everything and there is precious little to be discovered, well, certainly not in audio, which is just trivial. I really do 🙂
But if i did, i would then have to look for another hobby as who wants to explore the trivial and mundane?
But if i did, i would then have to look for another hobby as who wants to explore the trivial and mundane?
You do. Look around.
Any change is sound out of the speakers MUST be the result from a change in signal through the amp (unless you embrace the concept of ESP, in which case there would be very little to discuss, so I leave that aside for now ;-).
So if that mains cable changes the sound it means it changes the signal as a result of more or less mains junk.
Proper design can make sure that doesn't happen.
If changing the mains cable does not change the sound, congrats, you've got a great amp! Keep it.
Jan
You probably haven't tried to design a lot of amps, or you wouldn't call it trivial and mundane. Not very respectful to those engineers that break their backs to give you all those incredible products.
Jan
This is for interconnects one meter long pair, sorry if for wrong thread.
For internal and very short wiring of 5-10cm there should not be any big difference in sound quality using standard wiring.
Best regards
Does the impedance of Cat5e cable (100 ohms?) is changing anything if a bit long as between a pre and a source for instance?
I'm surprised at this point nobody asked about the potatoe variety for further experiment!
I'm happy with Hook-up wire between AWG 24 to 28/30. Although 24 AWG ha my preference when cooked al dente.
Of course YMMV
I'm surprised at this point nobody asked about the potatoe variety for further experiment!
I'm happy with Hook-up wire between AWG 24 to 28/30. Although 24 AWG ha my preference when cooked al dente.
Of course YMMV
That is the characteristic impedance, which comes into play with wavelengths that are the same order as the cable length. Those are at the frequencies that normally go through cat5 cable - many MHz /GHz.
If you measure them with an ohmmeter you do not measure 100 ohms (much, much less).
So no, no issue for audio.
Jan
Thank you,
Does this characteristic impedance matters for audio digital or clock signals please ? (let assume clock speed <50 Mhz)
What type of hook-up wire would be ok between two boards for such signals please ? Anyone, cause we always try the shortest length or impedance matching between those two boards should worry us ?
🙁 I still can hear some difference whith cables after my amp (always had cheap ones though)
Does this characteristic impedance matters for audio digital or clock signals please ? (let assume clock speed <50 Mhz)
What type of hook-up wire would be ok between two boards for such signals please ? Anyone, cause we always try the shortest length or impedance matching between those two boards should worry us ?
🙁 I still can hear some difference whith cables after my amp (always had cheap ones though)
Excellent point, indeed! That is why you would use 50 ohms cable, and the input impedance of for instance your DAC also being 50 ohms (or 75 ohms in some cases for AES/EBU signals).
By matching the cable characteristic impedance to the source/load impedance you make sure that the signal is least distorted even with longer cables. The measurement for this is called 'eye pattern' - there's a Wikipedia for it.
The cable characteristic impedance is determined by the combination of cable capacitance between conductors and the cable inductance along the conductor, plus a few other factors. Very roughly, the ratio of L to C determines the cable 'impedance'.
But again, measure a 50 ohms cable with an ohmmeter and you will NOT measure 50 ohms. A tiny fraction of it.
Jan
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I see so much diy dacs with digital signal input vias than I was a little puzzled...(I2S vias or SPIDFvias with no conector footprint)
Yes I do know a wire is not a resitor (at least it is but as you said not in that high ohmic ranges 🙂... btw still use the ohmmeter to buzz and hear if the signal is going through my bad soldering joints)
Yes I do know a wire is not a resitor (at least it is but as you said not in that high ohmic ranges 🙂... btw still use the ohmmeter to buzz and hear if the signal is going through my bad soldering joints)
😀..... and growing near copper mines !
Hope for us potatoes weight will not reach the price of copper!
Hope for us potatoes weight will not reach the price of copper!
Оr alternatively, it is a really crappy amp with no resolution, or i have gone deaf.
Sorry, cannot write more tonight as i am running low on sarcasm and it shows.
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