For the longest time I've been meaning to build the "ultimate" high efficiency speaker. If I could pony up the money for a pair of Summas, I would do it today. But you know how it goes, great speakers are very expensive, and DIY projects never seem to get finished.
So I was pleasantly surprised to find a high-efficiency two-way for just THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS yesterday. Even better, it's NEW, and you don't even have to buy it online. I bought my pair just 15 minutes from my home in Tacoma Washington. If they don't have a store near you, you can buy them online, for $450.
If you read these specs, you'll see that it's perfect for SET amps. It has an efficiency of 99db, a very light paper-coned 15" midbass, coupled to a waveguide driven by a compression driver. What really sold me was the attention to detail in the waveguide; it's not as "perfect" as the waveguide in the Summa or the Klein & Hummels. But it's light years ahead of the crummy horns that you see in many high-efficiency designs.
Keep in mind these speakers are $300. I still want to build something better, and if that doesn't happen, I *will* buy a pair of Summas. But until then, I'll enjoy what may be the best $300 high-efficiency speaker you can get right now.
If anyone is interested in getting a pair, you'll have to act fast. The pair that I bought were the last two in the store. But the store has outlets ALL OVER AMERICA, in fact it's the largest chain of it's kind.
Here's a few pics. Does anyone want to guess what this is?
:: PB ::
So I was pleasantly surprised to find a high-efficiency two-way for just THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS yesterday. Even better, it's NEW, and you don't even have to buy it online. I bought my pair just 15 minutes from my home in Tacoma Washington. If they don't have a store near you, you can buy them online, for $450.
If you read these specs, you'll see that it's perfect for SET amps. It has an efficiency of 99db, a very light paper-coned 15" midbass, coupled to a waveguide driven by a compression driver. What really sold me was the attention to detail in the waveguide; it's not as "perfect" as the waveguide in the Summa or the Klein & Hummels. But it's light years ahead of the crummy horns that you see in many high-efficiency designs.
Keep in mind these speakers are $300. I still want to build something better, and if that doesn't happen, I *will* buy a pair of Summas. But until then, I'll enjoy what may be the best $300 high-efficiency speaker you can get right now.
If anyone is interested in getting a pair, you'll have to act fast. The pair that I bought were the last two in the store. But the store has outlets ALL OVER AMERICA, in fact it's the largest chain of it's kind.
Here's a few pics. Does anyone want to guess what this is?
:: PB ::
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what is it???An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
what is it???
so its a MP215 JBL with plywood cabinet? - it is plywood and not beaverboard??? (IIRC pix I saw had large side handles)
if so the graph shows tuning and midbass set for pole-mount. if it were "this" cabinet, might it be tuned a tiny bit lower for home hifi use?
might the mystery speaker crossover look something like the following?
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/3239/xthisdw3.jpg
what do you think TS for the woofer might be? - cone looks likke Eminence's Beta and kinda like EV SP15B
does it play a tuneful drumkit? can it play good bowed bass viola trax? can it be found online? - I have no mobility and things are getting worse.
if so the graph shows tuning and midbass set for pole-mount. if it were "this" cabinet, might it be tuned a tiny bit lower for home hifi use?
might the mystery speaker crossover look something like the following?
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/3239/xthisdw3.jpg
what do you think TS for the woofer might be? - cone looks likke Eminence's Beta and kinda like EV SP15B
does it play a tuneful drumkit? can it play good bowed bass viola trax? can it be found online? - I have no mobility and things are getting worse.
Sure looks like a JBL MP215.
Never heard one, but if it sounds like its powered cousin the 15" EON, then you can keep it! Yuck....
Hopefully, it will sound better. The 15" woofer just doesn't play well with the 1" horn on the EON. Maybe this is better?
Never heard one, but if it sounds like its powered cousin the 15" EON, then you can keep it! Yuck....
Hopefully, it will sound better. The 15" woofer just doesn't play well with the 1" horn on the EON. Maybe this is better?
The horn on the EON is about 1/4 the size of the waveguide on the MP215. So I'd be willing to bet that the MP215 has a far superior polar pattern, better power response, and a lower xover point.
Did I mention it's just $300?
:: PB ::
Did I mention it's just $300?
:: PB ::
Most likely, yes. The size of the waveguide on the MP215 is encouraging. The box looks bigger than the EON, too. The crossover point could be lower, but who knows if it is? It's hard to get a 1" driver to work well with a 15" woofer. At least in the systems I've heard.
Of course with an SET setup, you won't have to worry much about power 😉 so you could make a "better" crossover for the MP214.
FWIW, I always wanted to try a non-powered Meyer CQ-1 with an SET amp. Great sounding box, might work nicely with a tube amp. Sure does not cost $300 though.
For $300 the MPro 215 sounds like a great deal - as long as it doesn't sound like the EON!
Of course with an SET setup, you won't have to worry much about power 😉 so you could make a "better" crossover for the MP214.
FWIW, I always wanted to try a non-powered Meyer CQ-1 with an SET amp. Great sounding box, might work nicely with a tube amp. Sure does not cost $300 though.
For $300 the MPro 215 sounds like a great deal - as long as it doesn't sound like the EON!
specs on MP215 say 1.7Khz xover - whats a 2412 HF look like? what it sound like with pp-tubes or solid-state? - does it do a good drumkit with Billy Martin/whomever? my diy SET is only about 5W and I like 120dB peaks (near the speaker) any on-line better prices than Musician's "friend"?
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MPro Series/MP215.pdf
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MPro Series/MP215.pdf
freddi, where did you find the 1.7Khz for the crossover? I don't see it.
FWIW, the M115-8A 15" driver has the following specs.
Fs: 46
Qts: 0.39
Qms: 5.1
Qes: 0.42
VAS 225
EFF: 5
PE:250
Xmax: 5.1
Re: 5.5
Le: 1.3
BL: 14
Mms: 53g (that seems very light for a 15")
The compression driver looks like a 4 ohm model?
FWIW, the M115-8A 15" driver has the following specs.
Fs: 46
Qts: 0.39
Qms: 5.1
Qes: 0.42
VAS 225
EFF: 5
PE:250
Xmax: 5.1
Re: 5.5
Le: 1.3
BL: 14
Mms: 53g (that seems very light for a 15")
The compression driver looks like a 4 ohm model?
Freddi, sorry to hear about your situation, makes me realise the value of my freedom.
I don't think this speaker is for you. Its a sound reinforcement unit. Not a hifi type. Probably fine on drums, but not sure about bass strings.
IMHO JBLs and similar come into there own in larger rooms or auditoriums. I nearly had my ears torn off by JBL ring radiators! HF horns in confined areas will do the same.
What you are looking for needs smooth response down to 40Hz, and good transient response, with high sensitivity. Regards, Geoff
I don't think this speaker is for you. Its a sound reinforcement unit. Not a hifi type. Probably fine on drums, but not sure about bass strings.
IMHO JBLs and similar come into there own in larger rooms or auditoriums. I nearly had my ears torn off by JBL ring radiators! HF horns in confined areas will do the same.
What you are looking for needs smooth response down to 40Hz, and good transient response, with high sensitivity. Regards, Geoff
Geoff H said:
I don't think I have to convince Freddi that prosound gear is ideal for hifi.
What if I told you that I'm running BMS ring radiators IN MY CAR? BMS in my car I've published response curves, and I can assure you, they won't "tear your ears off." JBL's ring radiators are manufactured by BMS btw. If you heard modern ring radiators that sounded like sh1t, I'll bet it was the venue or post-processing. The BMS drivers alone are exceptional.
Hmmmm sounds good.
Hi Patrick, those ear tearing ring radiators were in a Hi-Fi shop owned by a friend way back in 1976. They may well be a different beast nowadays, but as they say, once bitten, twice shy. We used to say the should come with a warning sign. "Stand back!"
They were in the wrong environment. Even the Barcelonas sounded better in the factory out the back, the 511 horn needing room to breath.
I favour the 511s in the right room or out doors. I can't live with them, my rooms have never been big enough. Once you get back 20 feet or so, no problems.
We are probably in the JBL versus Altec Lansing match, but I think we would agree that the big advantage with the prosound gear, is acres of headroom.
Geoff
They were in the wrong environment. Even the Barcelonas sounded better in the factory out the back, the 511 horn needing room to breath.
I favour the 511s in the right room or out doors. I can't live with them, my rooms have never been big enough. Once you get back 20 feet or so, no problems.
We are probably in the JBL versus Altec Lansing match, but I think we would agree that the big advantage with the prosound gear, is acres of headroom.
Geoff
No no no. Some transistor amps are fine on horns. I was thinking last night, (yes I know - dangerous)
At that point in history, when I made that observation, solid state amps were increasing in power. A lot took on a particular "edgyness" After several years of the then new "valves versus transistor wars", a reason was found for the different sound. Transient intermodulation distortion. Remember, in those days, the champion of o/p transistors were 2N3055s / 2N2955s. With an fT of 800 Khz.
That is possibly what we were hearing in the horns. Many speakers didn't reproduce that distortion.
Also, those amps were biased in the A-B region. With the efficiency of the horns, the amps were running in the crossover region, where distortion can be harsh.
I think tubes are better than S/S, but don't deny those people using S/S, the choice of horns. S/S gear has come a long way since then.
Geoff
At that point in history, when I made that observation, solid state amps were increasing in power. A lot took on a particular "edgyness" After several years of the then new "valves versus transistor wars", a reason was found for the different sound. Transient intermodulation distortion. Remember, in those days, the champion of o/p transistors were 2N3055s / 2N2955s. With an fT of 800 Khz.
That is possibly what we were hearing in the horns. Many speakers didn't reproduce that distortion.
Also, those amps were biased in the A-B region. With the efficiency of the horns, the amps were running in the crossover region, where distortion can be harsh.
I think tubes are better than S/S, but don't deny those people using S/S, the choice of horns. S/S gear has come a long way since then.
Geoff
Patrick, I just checked that link to you BMS in the car. I am not one to have hi qual sound in the car. My view is it can distract you from driving.
However, I might measure the angle between the dash and screen in the morning. The 6" pioneers rattle the door linings with the EQ on.
How do they go with heat? It can get pretty hot there.
Geoff.
However, I might measure the angle between the dash and screen in the morning. The 6" pioneers rattle the door linings with the EQ on.
How do they go with heat? It can get pretty hot there.
Geoff.
Geoff H said:
Every speaker is in a compression chamber, so temperature is a fairly moot issue. They aren't exposed at all.
freddi said:
I'm surprised at how little I 'miss' the top octave with this speaker. If you look at the graph, it's completely M.I.A.
http://www.jblpro.com/mpro/PDF/MP215.pdf
Believe it or not, I have the JBLs on 'audiophile' speaker stands right now. The poor speaker stands look about as stable as a two-legged tripod. So this morning I picked up a big ol' 20" sonotube from White Cap. I am going to build a pair of subs for the JBLs, and put them on top.
:: PB ::
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