No lack of control with the 830452, quite the opposite in fact. Although removing the really low bass does, psychoacoustically speaking, give the subjective impression of speeding up the bass. This is one of the reasons why small bookshelves, sealed especially, are often touted as having really quick bass. It's not because they are any faster it's just they can't do the low stuff.
Yeah, I really cannot afford 4 of those at the moment. Although I would love to eventually do a project with them (and noticed your ebay listing). What frequency were you able to play down to on it?
Wasn't sure if you were using it as an active crossover or for a larger system of loudspeakers. I'm trying out the JAB5 from Sure Electronics (Wondom), which is a 4x100W (6 Ohm), with the ability to bridge two channels at a time to make it a 2x100W +200W or a 200W + 200W. It has the ADAU1701. Unfortunately I could not find an ADAU1467 core board + ext (so the developer board) for less than $170 a piece (or around that). Still, this can be used as an active crossover and that is how I intend to use it with SigmaStudio and REW.
I'll keep that in mind. So you have no idea how low the SB23MFCL45-4 can reach on Hz?
How low was the Peeless able to play?
And same to you, how low were you able to tune the Peerlesses?
I couldn't get an impression of the SB23MFCL45-4.
With the 830452 I ended up with F3=28Hz F10=22Hz vented.
Here's an application note from Tymphany.
https://www.tymphany.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Appnote-xlssub.pdf
I like the Peerless 830452 and they are only $138ea when you buy 4 at Parts express these days. The sdx10 is a good woofer and is $227 ea when you buy 4 so getting a little pricy. The Dayton RSS265 comes in 8ohm, 4ohm small cab ho or larger cab hf, is low distortion and is $142 when you buy 4. The Dayton are my choice, they can go sealed or ported so more versatile than the Peerless and significantly cheaper than the sdx. I have used all three of these woofers and could live with any of them gladly.
I saw your note in that other thread, between the gain and the amp power. I do have a DSP in the ADAU1701 200W amp implementation (4Ohm). So, do you think that might work, considering the gain adjustment being able to be controlled in SigmaStudio possibly?
Also, that is a nice F3. I do watch a fair amount of movies and because it is crossing with the SEAS U18RNX-P, I should be able to take the crossover decently low.
Edit: BTW, I only plan to run the SB top level around 100W, so the amp should not be overly stressed if the gain is set accordingly, I suppose.
I'm doing vented. Sealed compartment for the U18RNX-P.
I am leaning toward the SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-4 or the Peerless 830452 because they fit within that $600 budget (otherwise the SB34SWPL-76-4 12" or the SEAS L26RO4Y would likely be happening if I had $1K-$1200 to spend).
I like how well the Daytons do down low, but above 50Hz, they have a bit more distortion than some of the other drivers from different places that I have seen (while having great distortion levels below that level).
With the Peerless, better sealed or ported?
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without active eq you gotta go ported with the peerless. they work fine sealed with dsp (I guess this is true of most drivers). I never worry about distortion unless it's really bad.
I've got a pair of the SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-4. They model really well in a small box. I remember Rabbitz comments that they need some juice. I've got a couple 1000watt plate amps I need to try them with, might wake them up.
Well, using autoEQ from REW to create some type of filter for the EQ in Sigma plus ported seems like it would work really well then. Also, from others' results, it seems that they get the peerless to go deeper than the winISD modeling, which for me has the SB 8" going lower (but winISD modeling isn't reality).
As to distortion, I really enjoy jazz, classic rock, etc., so I want some low distortion above 50Hz. Hell, my cat is named Charles Mingus, after the famous jazz bass player.
I could live with the daytons, but since it only needs to play up to the low 100dB range at tops, I'm willing to leave some the the lowest frequency levels on the table in order to get some lower distortion for music above 50Hz (although I still want it to go decently low).
I noticed the HO daytons has a lower VAS than the HF, which I also don't want to balloon the box so much it becomes a full tower speaker. But if I must... lol
They're just here waiting for me to be motivated to do something. I don't think 60's jazz is any more likely to expose distortion then many other kinds of music. I just don't think distortion is something you'll be able to discern between most of these prospective drivers. If the aluminum coned drivers are run too high maybe, but I imagine that's over 500hz with a shallow cutoff.
Fair enough. Here's some cheerleading for you: "build it up, build it up, way up. Turn it up, turn it up, way up. Shake them down, shake them down...." wait, that last one sounds more like what you do when someone owes you money. Lol.
Yeah, quite possibly.
Also, isn't the sb23mfcl45 150W rms? How much more power than that would be needed?
It worked! It's now on my list. I'm not too concerned about the watts. I've never killed a sub so I'm not too worried.
I have no idea as the plate amp did bugger all so I couldn't get a result. IIRC, I did try a small stereo power amp on the SB23MFCL and I think that had a similar result. It's a beautifully made driver and would've loved to have heard it in full flight.
Yay! I have to wait on all my parts to get here, so I can push off the sub selection for a little while. Hopefully that while coincides with you being able to get to that point on your list.
My amps are coming from Sure. Have some 500W power supplies with filtering ordered to run the 4x100W amps (bridging two channels for 200W for the sub). Then two U18RNX-P in waiting for the store to get in. Meanwhile the 4 tweeters and 2 of the U18RNX-P come in tomorrow.
You aren't the first I've heard of that has had problems getting this driver to work. Call me an eternal optimist, but I'm hoping someone can get it to work and able to let me know how well they function. Otherwise, I'll get those peerless, which most seem happy with.
The droop you see in the modeled response of the U18 2-ways I showed you were related to box tuning and xover implementation. It's all a set of trade-offs.
Since you are using a DSP, you could fix that easily. The U18 sounds great in the bass, but especially lovely in the midrange. It has virtually no breakup to suppress.
Later,
Wolf
What I showed him is attached...
Since you are using a DSP, you could fix that easily. The U18 sounds great in the bass, but especially lovely in the midrange. It has virtually no breakup to suppress.
Later,
Wolf
What I showed him is attached...
Attachments
ajc9988, the seas l26 subs do really well down to 30hz in fact better than most 12s. Below that you might need the help of a port or a high pass filter. Yes, I do have mine on ebay. Not yet at a bargain price but it's hardly used.
Very true. In fact, I was just about to post here some simple modeling from winISD comparing the drivers and my assumptions on filters, while having the U18 in there to show that versus the subs discussed. Please take no offense, I just do seek out numerous opinions, especially when learning.
From left to right is the following (all vented (all 120Hz LP filter except U18)):
Dayton RSS265HO-44 2.1ft^3 23.3Hz tuning freq. 1.5"x12"x38.87" port 174.06Hz 1st port resonance HP filter 15Hz LR
SB23MFCL45-8 1.2ft^3 25.8Hz tun. freq. 1.375"x8"x33.98" vent 199.09Hz 1st port resonance HP filter 22Hz butterworth 2
MX12-22 1.066ft^3 33.36Hz tun freq 1"x12"x24.29" vent 278.52Hz 1st port res. HP filter 10Hz LR
XLS-P830452 0.488ft^3 41.58 tun freq. 0.875"x10"x25.38" 266.56Hz 1st port HP filter 15Hz LR
U18RNX-P 0.644ft^3 48Hz Tun. Freq. 1.5"x7"x16.32" 414.5Hz 1st port res. HP butterworth 2 - 32Hz
So you are very much correct that the sub is not adding much to the depth of what the U18 is already capable of doing. Without a doubt I do believe you there (and did before my modeling). And I may go that way, still. The Dayton RSS HO takes a huge box volume compared to what I am looking for, although clearly adds deeper bass. The SB23 is a decent compromise, adding frequency range while being 1.2 cubic foot (still a decent size space). The MX12 is not that far behind on space or bass frequency. The peerless, as modeled, uses very little space (less than even the U18 with a vent), but does not add much with how it is modeled in winISD here (goal before filters added was try to make +-0.1dB from flat). I'm sure I could do all of these modded to get a little more depth and then use the DSP to correct and flatten the line.
That is why I haven't ruled out your suggestion at all. This modeling is also why I haven't fully ruled out the SB23, even though you mentioned people have had issues with it and others here have said they had issues with the model. Because if it could come out close to as modeled here, I would really enjoy adding it.
And it is still a good price. And it really looks like I would enjoy it. I just would not be able to swing it at this moment with how I envisioned the build (although if I change what I envisioned, then it is something I am considering).
I didn't adjust the vents yet, but to extend them further for bass, I resized the box and tuning frequency as follows:
P830452 - 35.9L (1.268ft^3) 26.1Hz
SB - cone excursion at 3.35ft^3 21.92Hz
MX12-22 - 2.273ft^3 24.1Hz
Didn't change the RSS HO nor the U18. But that extends all of them to the 20s to low 30Hz.
P830452 - 35.9L (1.268ft^3) 26.1Hz
SB - cone excursion at 3.35ft^3 21.92Hz
MX12-22 - 2.273ft^3 24.1Hz
Didn't change the RSS HO nor the U18. But that extends all of them to the 20s to low 30Hz.