Hi Folks
Looking for advice on connecting up an active crossover to my current system.
I have just ordered a Behringer CX2310 so that I can go from 2.0 to 2.1 using my Tannoy TS2.10 sub and am unsure of how to connect it up. I can see how to connect my DAC and sub to the Behringer but when it comes to connecting my 2.0 amp (Topping TP60) there are two options- "high band output" and "low band output". Which of these should I be using?
Also, my sub is currently connected to the LFE out from an AVR for home theatre use and I would like to have it connected to the Behringer at the same time. It has line-level L/LFE and R phono inputs (twin phono). Could I leave the AVR LFE output connected to the L/LFE input on the sub and connect the Behringer to the phono R input or should I use some kind of splitter so that they are both connected to the single phono L/LFE input? Not sure what would work..or which is the better option.
Any advice most welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Chris
Looking for advice on connecting up an active crossover to my current system.
I have just ordered a Behringer CX2310 so that I can go from 2.0 to 2.1 using my Tannoy TS2.10 sub and am unsure of how to connect it up. I can see how to connect my DAC and sub to the Behringer but when it comes to connecting my 2.0 amp (Topping TP60) there are two options- "high band output" and "low band output". Which of these should I be using?
Also, my sub is currently connected to the LFE out from an AVR for home theatre use and I would like to have it connected to the Behringer at the same time. It has line-level L/LFE and R phono inputs (twin phono). Could I leave the AVR LFE output connected to the L/LFE input on the sub and connect the Behringer to the phono R input or should I use some kind of splitter so that they are both connected to the single phono L/LFE input? Not sure what would work..or which is the better option.
Any advice most welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Chris
High band feeds the amplifier input that drives the treble speakers and Low band feeds the active sub and bass.
Thanks but not quite sure what you mean. The Behringer has a dedicated subwoofer output so presumably that is what I connect to the sub...is the "low band" output something simelar? Not sure what you mean by "treble speakers"? Essentially, I want everything above the sub crossover frequency to be sent to the Topping amp which is connected to my main speakers so need to know whether to use the "low band" or "high band" outputs from the Behringer...or both. Still not clear to me...😕
I think you are complicating things here. I don't think you need the Behringers. If I am reading your situation correctly, you will run your DAC to the Tannoy woofer inputs and use the RCA outs on the Tannoy to run to the TP60 which will operate your main speakers. The XO for the woofer is built in and there is gain control on it and on the TP 60 which will balance the two. The CX2310 is meant for going fully active as in an amp for each driver.
The second part, I have to wrap my head around a little better before answering.
The second part, I have to wrap my head around a little better before answering.
Hi. Thanks for the replies. Think I'd better explain what I am aiming to do...
Initially I intended to try to incorporate my sub with my amplifier without an active external crossover but as the sub has no high-pass filter it would be impossible to remove the lower frequencies from the signal being sent to my main amp (Topping TP60). I posted a thread in the subwoofer section relating to this.
Having read up a bit more about this I decided that it would be worthwhile buying an external active crossover (the Behringer) so that I could send only the higher frequencies to the Topping amplifier. From what I've read this is one of the main reasons for incorportating a sub as it takes off some of the load from the main amp giving it more headroom. From what I gather this would be impossible without adding the crossover to my existing setup.
Anyway, I have ordered the Behringer but am not sure on how to connect it up to the main amp. There apear to be two options- "high band output" and "low band output". As far as I can see, my DAC will simply connect to the line-level inputs on the Behringer and there is a dedicated subwoofer output which I presume I would use. So the first question is "high band output" or "low band output" to the Topping?
Here is a diagram showing the possible connections...
The second issue concerns the fact that the sub is also used for home theatre and is currently connected to the LFE out from my AVR. I would like to have it connected to the Behringer at the same time. It has line-level L/LFE and R phono inputs (twin phono). Could I leave the AVR LFE output connected to the L/LFE input on the sub and connect the Behringers subwoofer out to the phono R input...or should I use some kind of splitter so that they are both connected to the single phono L/LFE input? Not sure what would work..or which is the better option.
Anyway, I hope I have explained my situation better and apologise for any wrong terminology I may have used. It's been a bit of a steep learning curve for me getting back in to the world of "audiophile" having been stuck in the multi-channel HT world for so long.
Thanks again for any help in advance!
Chris
Initially I intended to try to incorporate my sub with my amplifier without an active external crossover but as the sub has no high-pass filter it would be impossible to remove the lower frequencies from the signal being sent to my main amp (Topping TP60). I posted a thread in the subwoofer section relating to this.
Having read up a bit more about this I decided that it would be worthwhile buying an external active crossover (the Behringer) so that I could send only the higher frequencies to the Topping amplifier. From what I've read this is one of the main reasons for incorportating a sub as it takes off some of the load from the main amp giving it more headroom. From what I gather this would be impossible without adding the crossover to my existing setup.
Anyway, I have ordered the Behringer but am not sure on how to connect it up to the main amp. There apear to be two options- "high band output" and "low band output". As far as I can see, my DAC will simply connect to the line-level inputs on the Behringer and there is a dedicated subwoofer output which I presume I would use. So the first question is "high band output" or "low band output" to the Topping?
Here is a diagram showing the possible connections...
The second issue concerns the fact that the sub is also used for home theatre and is currently connected to the LFE out from my AVR. I would like to have it connected to the Behringer at the same time. It has line-level L/LFE and R phono inputs (twin phono). Could I leave the AVR LFE output connected to the L/LFE input on the sub and connect the Behringers subwoofer out to the phono R input...or should I use some kind of splitter so that they are both connected to the single phono L/LFE input? Not sure what would work..or which is the better option.
Anyway, I hope I have explained my situation better and apologise for any wrong terminology I may have used. It's been a bit of a steep learning curve for me getting back in to the world of "audiophile" having been stuck in the multi-channel HT world for so long.
Thanks again for any help in advance!
Chris
Hi Chris,
My answer remains the same. If you feel the need to reduce some of the lows from your Topper and main speakers, then use a passive line level xo between the Tannoy RCA outs and the Topper RCA ins. It costs only a few bucks and will do the job properly. Here's a calculator.
TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
Another choice is to use a capacitor between the Topper and your main speakers.
The CX2310 is simply a waste. It is used for a fully active system.
As far as a splitter for your AVR goes, someone else will have to advise you on that.
My answer remains the same. If you feel the need to reduce some of the lows from your Topper and main speakers, then use a passive line level xo between the Tannoy RCA outs and the Topper RCA ins. It costs only a few bucks and will do the job properly. Here's a calculator.
TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
Another choice is to use a capacitor between the Topper and your main speakers.
The CX2310 is simply a waste. It is used for a fully active system.
As far as a splitter for your AVR goes, someone else will have to advise you on that.
Thanks for the help. I guess I probably don't actually need the Behringer, as you say. One of the things that appeals is the ability to balance the volume of the sub when used for music with the stereo amp with that of the AVR. I think without it I would have to be continually adjusting the volume control on the back of the sub when switching between the two. I think that being able to adjust the sub crossover and possibly eq via the Behringer will also be useful. As my system is not exactly top-end, I think that any degradation of SQ will be relatively negligible. Also, at £52 delivered it is not a major outlay.
....From what I can make out it is the "high" outs from the Behringer to the amp. The sub can be connected to either the lows or the dedicated sub output.
Still unsure about connecting both stereo and multichannel amps to the sub simultaneously tho... Anyone?
Thanks again.
....From what I can make out it is the "high" outs from the Behringer to the amp. The sub can be connected to either the lows or the dedicated sub output.
Still unsure about connecting both stereo and multichannel amps to the sub simultaneously tho... Anyone?
Thanks again.
Does your DAC have a gain control? If not you'll need one before it gets to the sub. If it does, your volumes will be matched the first time you use it and you won't have to do any separate adjusting.
Thanks. Yes, it does as far as I'm aware tho I have it set at maximum and otherwise have never actually used it. Apologies again for my vagueness.
Here's a link to info on my DAC...
translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmusiland%2Bdriver%2Bdownload%26safe%3Doff%26espv%3D210%26es_sm%3D93%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D685&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.musiland.cn/index.php/Index/show/id/175&usg=ALkJrhj5OPDAdWYK58CEtlFgaRR3LTZ7Qg
Here's a link to info on my DAC...
translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmusiland%2Bdriver%2Bdownload%26safe%3Doff%26espv%3D210%26es_sm%3D93%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D685&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.musiland.cn/index.php/Index/show/id/175&usg=ALkJrhj5OPDAdWYK58CEtlFgaRR3LTZ7Qg
If I am getting the whole picture, you'll be using the gain on the DAC as your master volume. The volumes on Topper and Tannoy will be set according to taste and left. The DAC will plug into the sub ins and the outs go the the Topper. You can use a PLLXO in between the Tannoy and the Topper or a simple cap after the Topper to attenuate the lows from the main speakers.
Make sure all volumes are set low before you start increasing things and finding the balance.
I hope I am undrstanding the situation, maybe someone can come in and confirm or...
Make sure all volumes are set low before you start increasing things and finding the balance.
I hope I am undrstanding the situation, maybe someone can come in and confirm or...
Thanks for the help...I think I am getting there!
Still not sure about whether to use the Low Outs from the Behringer or the dedicated Sub out to connect the sub. The High Outs will go to the Topping amp.
I have been reading reviews of the Behringer and there seem to be reasons why the Sub Out is not ideal. Unfortunately I do not understand enough to know what they mean...
I have pasted these comments below. Perhaps somebody could explain?
"Subwoofer output = gadget because the low pass filter (filter for the sub) takes its signal in the Low section AFTER the crossover filters for each channel."
"...be aware that frquence cutoff low-pass subwoofer output has no effect on the subwoofer output. We do not REALLY cross-over between the outputs and subwoofer output Low as the two play the same thing. In fact the subwoofer output is just the single component output low, which can filter even lower.
By no means a low-cut filter is applied to the outputs according to the Low frquence "Xover" subwoofer. "
"The biggest problem: the low pass filter (filter for the sub) takes its signal in the Low section AFTER the crossover filters for each channel. In other words, when adjusting the crossover of 44Hz and the filter 'sub' to 200 Hz, the signal for the sub is limited to 44Hz (not 200Hz as it should!) I made a change on mine to fix the thing ... To learn how to: giniaip@birutele.be (remove all "i" in this address the problem of spam!) Or send me a private message stating your e-mail. This is a simple re-routing of the signal, it should not scare those who have used the soldering iron."
"...only negative quality switch cover and frequency of the output sub "mono" can not be greater than that set for the crossover frequency of the other filters ... Input signal of the filter output sub "mono" downstream prices of the other two low-pass filters."
"The sum of the frequencies below these two crossover is filtered again in the central part of the device in a section dedicated "sub"
Anyway, these comments give me the impression that it is better to use the Low Outs.
Anyone?
Thanks again!
Still not sure about whether to use the Low Outs from the Behringer or the dedicated Sub out to connect the sub. The High Outs will go to the Topping amp.
I have been reading reviews of the Behringer and there seem to be reasons why the Sub Out is not ideal. Unfortunately I do not understand enough to know what they mean...
I have pasted these comments below. Perhaps somebody could explain?
"Subwoofer output = gadget because the low pass filter (filter for the sub) takes its signal in the Low section AFTER the crossover filters for each channel."
"...be aware that frquence cutoff low-pass subwoofer output has no effect on the subwoofer output. We do not REALLY cross-over between the outputs and subwoofer output Low as the two play the same thing. In fact the subwoofer output is just the single component output low, which can filter even lower.
By no means a low-cut filter is applied to the outputs according to the Low frquence "Xover" subwoofer. "
"The biggest problem: the low pass filter (filter for the sub) takes its signal in the Low section AFTER the crossover filters for each channel. In other words, when adjusting the crossover of 44Hz and the filter 'sub' to 200 Hz, the signal for the sub is limited to 44Hz (not 200Hz as it should!) I made a change on mine to fix the thing ... To learn how to: giniaip@birutele.be (remove all "i" in this address the problem of spam!) Or send me a private message stating your e-mail. This is a simple re-routing of the signal, it should not scare those who have used the soldering iron."
"...only negative quality switch cover and frequency of the output sub "mono" can not be greater than that set for the crossover frequency of the other filters ... Input signal of the filter output sub "mono" downstream prices of the other two low-pass filters."
"The sum of the frequencies below these two crossover is filtered again in the central part of the device in a section dedicated "sub"
Anyway, these comments give me the impression that it is better to use the Low Outs.
Anyone?
Thanks again!
The Behringer's "sub" out, is for a subwoofer that has only 1 input. This is frequently the case with certain PA systems. The Behringer takes the signals sent to the left and right, (below the high-pass crossover point of the "low" outs) sums them together, then sends that to the mono "sub" output.
If your sub has 2 inputs, it does the same thing internally. If I were to choose which component does the summing, I would use the Tannoy sub's electronics. (Although now that Behringer owns Tannoy, who knows, try it out and see what you like... but I digress)
I think using the "Low" out(s) of the Behringer to send to the sub's L and R inputs would be ideal. That way you have more control over the freq's it sends to both of the sub inputs and the mains inputs.
I think what is confusing is that this crossover is meant for a 2 or 3 way system. If you have a bi-amped system you can send the "Hi" outputs to your tweaters (x-over at 2k or something) and the "Low" outs to the woofers of your mains. Then have an additional 3rd out for your subwoofer. Or you can run it like you want to with the "Hi" outs essentially full range and the low outs to the sub.
Edit: It also looks like you can run it as a mono 3 way crossover system.
If your sub has 2 inputs, it does the same thing internally. If I were to choose which component does the summing, I would use the Tannoy sub's electronics. (Although now that Behringer owns Tannoy, who knows, try it out and see what you like... but I digress)
I think using the "Low" out(s) of the Behringer to send to the sub's L and R inputs would be ideal. That way you have more control over the freq's it sends to both of the sub inputs and the mains inputs.
I think what is confusing is that this crossover is meant for a 2 or 3 way system. If you have a bi-amped system you can send the "Hi" outputs to your tweaters (x-over at 2k or something) and the "Low" outs to the woofers of your mains. Then have an additional 3rd out for your subwoofer. Or you can run it like you want to with the "Hi" outs essentially full range and the low outs to the sub.
Edit: It also looks like you can run it as a mono 3 way crossover system.
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Aha.
Many thanks for your help. Your explanation certainly makes sense. Unfortunately, my limited knowledge of "pro audio", crossovers etc meant that the various reviews and comments were akin to ancient Greek to me!
Will definitely go for the Low outs to the sub option. Just awaiting delivery of the various cables required.
Thanks again.
Chris ��
Many thanks for your help. Your explanation certainly makes sense. Unfortunately, my limited knowledge of "pro audio", crossovers etc meant that the various reviews and comments were akin to ancient Greek to me!
Will definitely go for the Low outs to the sub option. Just awaiting delivery of the various cables required.
Thanks again.
Chris ��
Another thing to consider is that your sub has a on-board crossover (or possibly just a low pass filter). I'm not sure if it also hi-passes the "output" RCAs of the sub or not. If it does then it is also a crossover and the Behringer may be unnecessary. You could just use the Tannoy's on board crossover to set the frequency cut-off(s) and adjust the level on the individual components. I am a big advocate of less electronics unless necessary. What are you using as a pre-amp/processor?
Thanks. Unfortunately the Tannoy does not have a high pass filter for the RCA outs so I do need the Behringer. I have read that it is pretty good in terms of minimal loss of signal quality/noise. I am using the analogue out of my USB DAC into the Topping tp60 at the moment so assume that I can do the same but via the Behringer?. Cheers.
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Cool, I suggest starting out like this
-Run the analog outs of your DAC to the Behringers L & R inputs.
-Plug the "High" outputs of the Behringer to your Toppings tp60, Left to Left and Right to Right.
-Then plug the "Low" outputs of the Behringer to your Tannoy sub, L & R. Leave the Behringer's "Sub" output disconnected for now.
-On the back panel, set the "MODE" to "2 Way Stereo" and set the "Xover Freq" to "1x" on both sides.
-Then on the front panel you can adjust your crossover frequency via the "XOver Freq" and levels via the "Level" knobs on the front.
-Be sure to start with the "Low Cut", "Phase", ("Theta INV" = Phase), and "Mute" buttons NOT pressed. Also be sure the Behringer's "Levels" are all at nominal 🙂
You have a lot of components there so be aware of potential hum from ground loops. You may end up needing a ISO transformer somewhere in there.
Edit: I would suggest setting the low pass (the one built into the sub) to the highest possible frequency (all the way right probably). That way you are setting your frequency from the crossover. Also check where the level should be set for the sub (on the back of the sub) most of the time it should be straight up at 12:00, unlike your Toppings amp which should probably be set wide open. You may need to mess with the sub level from the crossover and the back of the sub to get the right balance.
Does you DAC have volume control? If not what is your plan there?
-Run the analog outs of your DAC to the Behringers L & R inputs.
-Plug the "High" outputs of the Behringer to your Toppings tp60, Left to Left and Right to Right.
-Then plug the "Low" outputs of the Behringer to your Tannoy sub, L & R. Leave the Behringer's "Sub" output disconnected for now.
-On the back panel, set the "MODE" to "2 Way Stereo" and set the "Xover Freq" to "1x" on both sides.
-Then on the front panel you can adjust your crossover frequency via the "XOver Freq" and levels via the "Level" knobs on the front.
-Be sure to start with the "Low Cut", "Phase", ("Theta INV" = Phase), and "Mute" buttons NOT pressed. Also be sure the Behringer's "Levels" are all at nominal 🙂
You have a lot of components there so be aware of potential hum from ground loops. You may end up needing a ISO transformer somewhere in there.
Edit: I would suggest setting the low pass (the one built into the sub) to the highest possible frequency (all the way right probably). That way you are setting your frequency from the crossover. Also check where the level should be set for the sub (on the back of the sub) most of the time it should be straight up at 12:00, unlike your Toppings amp which should probably be set wide open. You may need to mess with the sub level from the crossover and the back of the sub to get the right balance.
Does you DAC have volume control? If not what is your plan there?
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Hi Folks
Okay, so having connected everything up as suggested above I have a problem...
The level from the Topping is very low, even with the volume at max and the input and high out gains maxxed out on the Behringer. Is the line-level output from my DAC too low? Kinda expected a bit of hum at low vols due to unbalanced RCA to XLR but not this issue. Don't really want to add a preamp if pos...
Any help most appreciated.
Thanks again,
Okay, so having connected everything up as suggested above I have a problem...
The level from the Topping is very low, even with the volume at max and the input and high out gains maxxed out on the Behringer. Is the line-level output from my DAC too low? Kinda expected a bit of hum at low vols due to unbalanced RCA to XLR but not this issue. Don't really want to add a preamp if pos...
Any help most appreciated.
Thanks again,
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