Upon searching around for class D power for a low price I stumbled upon Behingers latest line of amps. 230 WRMS at 1% into 4 ohms, 20-20K +0/-1dB, $219 for a 1 space 10 lb. rackmount amp. "Class H 2-tier".
From reading the Behringer brochure they flat out say they didn't invent the technology. It's obvious they license it from someone, and I doubt it's Phillips although I could be wrong. They make an entire line of different wattage class D amps. This is just one. You can try it and send it back within 45 days for a full refund if you no like.
Behringer Europower EPQ450 Professional 460-Watt Light Weight Stereo Power Amplifier W/ ATR - BananasMusic.com
and this MONSTER!
http://www.bananasmusic.com/productdetail.asp/PID_8317
From reading the Behringer brochure they flat out say they didn't invent the technology. It's obvious they license it from someone, and I doubt it's Phillips although I could be wrong. They make an entire line of different wattage class D amps. This is just one. You can try it and send it back within 45 days for a full refund if you no like.
Behringer Europower EPQ450 Professional 460-Watt Light Weight Stereo Power Amplifier W/ ATR - BananasMusic.com
and this MONSTER!
http://www.bananasmusic.com/productdetail.asp/PID_8317
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Class G and Class H are variations of Class AB. Both are very similar and to a certain extent can be used interchangeably. Hitachi sold Class G amps in the early 1980's. In both cases, they use power rail switching and typically will have several rail voltages that change dynamically based on load requirements. Class H takes it a bit further in that the rail voltage varies in a stepless fashion rather than having a fixed set of specific voltages available. It's an attempt to increase the efficiency of a conventional Class AB design. It's difficult to say for sure, but I suppose it's possible that the Behringer's are Class D rather than AB but with the Class G/H power supply innovation, although I'm not sure that the Class designation is properly applied if that's the case.
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I'd be curious to hear how these type of 20lbs/1000w amps handle deep bass at high volume. "Back in the days" you needed huge capacitors to store energy just for that, and a big/heavy power supply to feed them.
Never know
The only way to know is to try one. I wouldn't expect much. I bought a Behringer A500 and it is the worst sounding amp I have ever had home. Very opaque and congested. I would try the Hifimediy T3 with a MeanWell SMPS. The Tripath TC2000 chip is the best sounding amp driver available right now and the MeanWell SMPS sounds better than my best linear supply.
The only way to know is to try one. I wouldn't expect much. I bought a Behringer A500 and it is the worst sounding amp I have ever had home. Very opaque and congested. I would try the Hifimediy T3 with a MeanWell SMPS. The Tripath TC2000 chip is the best sounding amp driver available right now and the MeanWell SMPS sounds better than my best linear supply.
They are class D amps using class H modulation of the rails. The spec sheet explicitly states the outputs are class D. I think there’s a lot of confusion over how to apply the class designation when using a class H topology for the power rails and another topology (like AB or D) along with that. But no doubt the outputs are class D (not sure what subclass though).
The two biggest selling points are low output impedance (damping factor over 200 for what they claim is awesome bass) and ultra high slew rate, along with efficiency of course.
I agree in general about the quality of Behringer. I own one amp I use for a subwoofer amp, and for that it sounds fine, but for full range use I wouldn't recommend it.
I've had the opportunity to use (I mean really use, not just quickly try out) a lot of Behringer stuff, mostly rack mount audio processors, not amps. Most is semi-pro quality at best, even the stuff they call "professional". But occasionally they surprise you and make something that really sounds good.
Once I get my Hypex amp completed (UcD180ST and dual Meanwell 48 volt 350 watt SMPS) I’ll order a Behringer and give it a comparison. If I don’t like it I’ll send it back. Shipping isn’t very expensive for a 10lb amp. I’ve never had an issue sending something I didn’t like back from the places I do business with.
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Semi-Correction:
The amps in this lineup aren't all the same topology.
EPQ304 - class D 65 w/ch
EPQ450 - class AB 155 w/ch
EPQ900 - class H 274 w/ch
EPQ1200 - class AB 425 w/ch
EPQ2000 - class H 2-tier 700 w/ch
So at least two of them are class AB. I have to question how accurately the sales guys who drew up these brochures got the specs.
The amps in this lineup aren't all the same topology.
EPQ304 - class D 65 w/ch
EPQ450 - class AB 155 w/ch
EPQ900 - class H 274 w/ch
EPQ1200 - class AB 425 w/ch
EPQ2000 - class H 2-tier 700 w/ch
So at least two of them are class AB. I have to question how accurately the sales guys who drew up these brochures got the specs.
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For what it's worth, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to amplifier classes; A, B, AB, C, D, E & F. Half of those are not useful in HiFi.
So, personally, I would just consider these either AB or D, and leave the rest to the marketing department. Sometimes it's important to remind ourselves that there is engineering, and there is marketing and a gulf between them. So, I wouldn't necessarily disregard the product itself over a few over-the-top brochures, but try to evaluate it on it's own merits.
So, personally, I would just consider these either AB or D, and leave the rest to the marketing department. Sometimes it's important to remind ourselves that there is engineering, and there is marketing and a gulf between them. So, I wouldn't necessarily disregard the product itself over a few over-the-top brochures, but try to evaluate it on it's own merits.
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Please could you specify which model of Meanwell are you using with the ucd180? Thank You!
Antonio
Found the answer in the "Hypex UcD180HG HxR or 400HG HxR ? " thread. Thank You anyway!
I'm a EE and I read "Spectrum" which is the IEEE magazine, and Bruno Putzeys was featured this month in a short article about how class D amps have taken audio by storm in 2010 and how Putzeys worked for Philips, looked at one of the chips a group of 4 senoir engineers had worked on for over a year, wasn't impressed with it, and with permission of his managers took 4 weeks to build a superior circuit from cheap discrete parts, and also about how he left Philips to work for Hypex taking some of his patents with him. That got me really looking at the technology and the Hypex products, and I was astonished at just how many other manufacturers have class D or similar offerings. One thing is for certain - class AB amps (as we know them) in consumer products will be almost gone within a very short period of time.
What I also found very interesting is that Putzeys started out designing and building tube amps as a kid, considering them superior to solid state (I build tube amps). Now he considers class D to be the best hi-fi audio amp topology.
With such a radical change in technology I wouldn't count any amp out until I both saw the specs and heard it.
So did I buy the right thing? All I know are the specs that I read before I ordered them. I have no idea if they offer something better but the ones I ordered seemed more than adequate for the 180 watt modules.
My biggest concern are the fans. I'll probably run the amps at 50 watts max, 100 watts total, so the SMPS should be coasting.
In fact, just for chuckles I intend to try out four 20 volt laptop SMPS units that I got on ebay for $10 each for a 4.5 amp, +/-40V supply. That's 360 VA of capacity (90 watts each SMPS) for $40 and something that will very easily fit in a 1U rack. I figure 100 WRMS into 8 ohms should be doable with no fans and the chassis as the heat sink.
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Well, these are Behringer products, right? My advice is to call or visit some of the music stores in your area ... by "music store" I'm talking about those that sell to musicians and have PA gear ... and see if they're in stock, or will be bringing them in. Hint: a bit of interest from a walk-in customer sometimes goes a long way there.
Most of these resellers rent gear, or are very accommodating to customers who want to evaluate gear. In other words, take one home and see.
If you rent (it's not expensive) you've done your part, but if they offer to send one home with you, be a stud and seriously consider buying it from them, as compared to whomever you're looking at online.
I have no reason whatsoever to doubt that. At the Industry-level, it's been happening for quite some time. Apple has been using Tripaths for more than 10 years in their branded computer speakers, I would be very surprised if you could buy a flat-panel TV that does not use Class D, and so on. It's going to be ... if it's not already ... the dominant amplifier class in "one box" HT setups, and I expect to see it in nationally advertised component gear from the lowest price point, gradually moving up the line.
Where this is going to affect DIY is in the component costs and availability for conventional Class A/AB designs over the next decade. I'm not necessarily predicting higher prices, but in comparison to Class D, I would expect relatively higher prices.
No, I was asking about the Meanwell SMPS I purchased to power the Hypex UcD180ST modules I ordered!!! But the advice is well taken.
Actually curiosity got the best of me and I ordered Behringer's 2000 watt amp. The call it "Class H 2-Tier", whatever that means (the 2-Tier part at least). 1000 WRMS into 4 ohms per channel, and it only weighs 20 lbs. I have 45 days to audition it and if I don't like it I'll either send it back or try it as a subwoofer amp. The damping factor is over 200 in the bass region and it's flat down to at least 20Hz. It should rock the house without heating it up like my tube amps (in Las Vegas 😎).
Out of Stock
No go on the amp order. Seems it's out of stock and not likely to come in.
No worries though. If you're a fan of class D you gotta love the upcoming offers from Behringer awaiting FCC approval in the States. The top power rating is a 6000 watt RMS behemoth that weighs, get this, less than 12 lbs. That's the chassis, the PS, the amp, the whole shebang, at less than 12 lbs!
I'm not saying it sounds good - it's not even for sale here yet. I just find it amazing that a 3000 watt per channel into 4 ohms stereo amp can weigh less than 12 lbs. Appropriately called the iNuke:
BEHRINGER: NU6000
No go on the amp order. Seems it's out of stock and not likely to come in.
No worries though. If you're a fan of class D you gotta love the upcoming offers from Behringer awaiting FCC approval in the States. The top power rating is a 6000 watt RMS behemoth that weighs, get this, less than 12 lbs. That's the chassis, the PS, the amp, the whole shebang, at less than 12 lbs!
I'm not saying it sounds good - it's not even for sale here yet. I just find it amazing that a 3000 watt per channel into 4 ohms stereo amp can weigh less than 12 lbs. Appropriately called the iNuke:
BEHRINGER: NU6000
I have a Behringer "Europower PMX2000" that I bought a while back - maybe 7 or 8 years ago. It was cheap, about $300, and at the time people were on Behringer's case for undermining Mackie. It has run the PA for numerous rock gigs and rehearsals, and you can run the guitar and keyboards through it, too. It claims 250 watts per channel, but whatever, it has never run short of what was needed, and has been bulletproof with some pretty low-impedance speaker stacks.
But what really surprised me was at my wedding - hooked it up to a decent CD player, and it filled a huge stone-walled room with really nice sound.
But what really surprised me was at my wedding - hooked it up to a decent CD player, and it filled a huge stone-walled room with really nice sound.
I've seen one of those PMX2000s at work at a friend's birthday party 2 years ago. It was driving a pair of BIG Reloop speakers, i think the woofers were 15s. Sounded decent but the mixer part was horrible, whenever the volume knob was touched it made an awful noise. Probably because it had never been cleaned.
I've also played with a Xenyx 16 channel mixer and i liked it. Most of their new stuff is too overhyped though and falls short of their ratings. Like the EP4000 which is simply a rebadged EP2500, which didn't do 2.5kW in the first place.
I've also played with a Xenyx 16 channel mixer and i liked it. Most of their new stuff is too overhyped though and falls short of their ratings. Like the EP4000 which is simply a rebadged EP2500, which didn't do 2.5kW in the first place.
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