Consider hi-fi drivers...
Hi, since you are talking about displacement I have to chime in - you should seriously consider a hi-fi driver for your bass cabinet.
Most of these pro drivers have Xmax in the range of 3-6 mm. If you can afford a powerful amplifier (250W+... a $120 plate amp will do) you should definitely consider something like an Adire Tempest ($150) for your bass cabinet. That driver in particular is a 15" with 16 mm of Xmax. Believe me, it is capable of violent output and clearly a different class from, say, an Eminence Delta. The only compromise would be in efficiency (it's 89db... the Delta-12LF is 94db) so it would need more power to deliver the same upper bass (>50Hz) slam. Of course there are better drivers for more money (multiple drivers work too to get more displacement and efficiency).
The Adire Maelstrom is an 18" with higher efficiency (93db) if that's needed, but it's also more expensive at $300 and requires a pretty huge box to go low. I think you guys are really overestimating the importance of efficiency - sure, you can go louder with less power but it's of no use if the driver doesn't have enough displacement. Big amplifiers are cheap, so why not take advantage of it. You can also forget worrying about extension, since these drivers will work to 25Hz and below.
"However, there is a decided difference in tonality between what comes directly from the driver, and what comes from the port."
I see no reason for this to happen - if the driver is still linear and you have enough porting, so neither creates distortion. It helps to have a low tuning, and with a hi-fi driver the tuning can be 25Hz or below so the added group delay associated with the resonance goes mostly out the window.
I see no reason to go with anything more than a 2-way. Cross your bass driver over around 500Hz to a good mid/treble horn, or just forget it altogether if you have a good enough bass driver. You definitely don't need extension to 10KHz, for bass playing 2KHz should be plenty.
Hi, since you are talking about displacement I have to chime in - you should seriously consider a hi-fi driver for your bass cabinet.
Most of these pro drivers have Xmax in the range of 3-6 mm. If you can afford a powerful amplifier (250W+... a $120 plate amp will do) you should definitely consider something like an Adire Tempest ($150) for your bass cabinet. That driver in particular is a 15" with 16 mm of Xmax. Believe me, it is capable of violent output and clearly a different class from, say, an Eminence Delta. The only compromise would be in efficiency (it's 89db... the Delta-12LF is 94db) so it would need more power to deliver the same upper bass (>50Hz) slam. Of course there are better drivers for more money (multiple drivers work too to get more displacement and efficiency).
The Adire Maelstrom is an 18" with higher efficiency (93db) if that's needed, but it's also more expensive at $300 and requires a pretty huge box to go low. I think you guys are really overestimating the importance of efficiency - sure, you can go louder with less power but it's of no use if the driver doesn't have enough displacement. Big amplifiers are cheap, so why not take advantage of it. You can also forget worrying about extension, since these drivers will work to 25Hz and below.
"However, there is a decided difference in tonality between what comes directly from the driver, and what comes from the port."
I see no reason for this to happen - if the driver is still linear and you have enough porting, so neither creates distortion. It helps to have a low tuning, and with a hi-fi driver the tuning can be 25Hz or below so the added group delay associated with the resonance goes mostly out the window.
I see no reason to go with anything more than a 2-way. Cross your bass driver over around 500Hz to a good mid/treble horn, or just forget it altogether if you have a good enough bass driver. You definitely don't need extension to 10KHz, for bass playing 2KHz should be plenty.
Hi luis,
As it has been stated before, I would recommend to use a piezo tweeter. I mean the most important thing when building a bass cab is the low frequencies, right? SO you don't necessarily need audiophile HF reproduction, do you? If it sounds muffy use your EQ or perhaps your amp has a "brightness" control, whatever.
Piezos may be a bit crappy, but they're a dead cheap solution. THe drivers are cheap, and you don't need a XO
luisma1972 said:
As it has been stated before, I would recommend to use a piezo tweeter. I mean the most important thing when building a bass cab is the low frequencies, right? SO you don't necessarily need audiophile HF reproduction, do you? If it sounds muffy use your EQ or perhaps your amp has a "brightness" control, whatever.
Piezos may be a bit crappy, but they're a dead cheap solution. THe drivers are cheap, and you don't need a XO
Many commercial bass cabinets have an f3 between 60 and 80 Hz just for reasons of efficiency and portability (as mentioned by pinkmouse).
I played through a 4x10" for many years, that had an f3 of around 60 Hz and nobody complained about lack of bottom (though my ears would have preferred more, but then there was my back who complained about ........!!) . Many of your co-musicians will prefer the punch around 100 Hz to the real bottom (simply because most keyboarders, guitar players, drummers and also audiences have really bad taste when it comes to bass sound).
Sometimes I biamped using two Eliminator 1 copies for the bottom (which are definitely NOT famous for going low !!) and the 4x10 above. Comment from the keyboarder:"NOW I could really hear you ....!"
Personally I like bass-sound that is really wideband. You know what you loose sound-wise with the average bass-setup when you play your bass through your hi-fi (at reasonable level !!!!). I therefore NEVER EVER did live gigs with the bass fed to the P.A. via a mic in front of the cab (i.e. my preamps always had a symmetrical DI output).
Why don't you go for a box (2x12", 2x10" or 4x10" plus tweeter)
that has an f3 in the range 50Hz to 60 Hz and that is reasonably small and effective.
If needed you can always add a 15" or 18" sub later on, that is preferably crossed-over actively.
To Kilentra: A modern bass with active pickups, equipped with roundwound strings, definitely has extension to 10 kHz or even more and it is definitely pleasing to reproduce this range as well.
You even sacrifice some PUNCH with bass instruments when you suppress the higher harmonics.
Two records to try it: Victor Wooten, "A show of hands" or Kodo, "Heartbeat drummers of Japan" (Telarc). Simply play them on your hi-fi and watch how much punch you loose on low-frequency instruments when you cover your tweeter !
A piezo is definitely a feasible cheap tweeter solution for a bass box, but you can avoid to make it sound cheap by adding a simple first oder crossover (as it has been pointed out several times on this forum) but then your woofers have to go up quite high !
Regards
Charles
I played through a 4x10" for many years, that had an f3 of around 60 Hz and nobody complained about lack of bottom (though my ears would have preferred more, but then there was my back who complained about ........!!) . Many of your co-musicians will prefer the punch around 100 Hz to the real bottom (simply because most keyboarders, guitar players, drummers and also audiences have really bad taste when it comes to bass sound).
Sometimes I biamped using two Eliminator 1 copies for the bottom (which are definitely NOT famous for going low !!) and the 4x10 above. Comment from the keyboarder:"NOW I could really hear you ....!"
Personally I like bass-sound that is really wideband. You know what you loose sound-wise with the average bass-setup when you play your bass through your hi-fi (at reasonable level !!!!). I therefore NEVER EVER did live gigs with the bass fed to the P.A. via a mic in front of the cab (i.e. my preamps always had a symmetrical DI output).
Why don't you go for a box (2x12", 2x10" or 4x10" plus tweeter)
that has an f3 in the range 50Hz to 60 Hz and that is reasonably small and effective.
If needed you can always add a 15" or 18" sub later on, that is preferably crossed-over actively.
To Kilentra: A modern bass with active pickups, equipped with roundwound strings, definitely has extension to 10 kHz or even more and it is definitely pleasing to reproduce this range as well.
You even sacrifice some PUNCH with bass instruments when you suppress the higher harmonics.
Two records to try it: Victor Wooten, "A show of hands" or Kodo, "Heartbeat drummers of Japan" (Telarc). Simply play them on your hi-fi and watch how much punch you loose on low-frequency instruments when you cover your tweeter !
A piezo is definitely a feasible cheap tweeter solution for a bass box, but you can avoid to make it sound cheap by adding a simple first oder crossover (as it has been pointed out several times on this forum) but then your woofers have to go up quite high !
Regards
Charles
High freq extension... agreed, but don't spend too much.
I'm under the impression that a bass can create significant energy as low as 28Hz, but mostly around 40Hz and above. (I don't play bass but some friends do...) I'd have to recommend shooting for a 40Hz F3, especially if you don't need ultimate loudness on a budget. If you can stretch your budget, the Maelstrom would be a great replacement for the Eminences (I believe it's actually made by Eminence)... with the 13mm Xmax and 93db efficiency... I still feel that the displacement of the pro drivers seriously limits their low-frequency capability. The hi-fi drivers like this one are capable of over 120db/1m at 40Hz, pro drivers would be going way nonlinear at that point. Given the low Q of this driver a ported box of 4-6 ft^3 would be plenty. (I don't know what the size requirements are in this case.)
I'm under the impression that a bass can create significant energy as low as 28Hz, but mostly around 40Hz and above. (I don't play bass but some friends do...) I'd have to recommend shooting for a 40Hz F3, especially if you don't need ultimate loudness on a budget. If you can stretch your budget, the Maelstrom would be a great replacement for the Eminences (I believe it's actually made by Eminence)... with the 13mm Xmax and 93db efficiency... I still feel that the displacement of the pro drivers seriously limits their low-frequency capability. The hi-fi drivers like this one are capable of over 120db/1m at 40Hz, pro drivers would be going way nonlinear at that point. Given the low Q of this driver a ported box of 4-6 ft^3 would be plenty. (I don't know what the size requirements are in this case.)
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