A friend has asked me if I could make them a bass guitar amplifier and they want a tube amp. I am completely new to tube amps so I wondered if hifi tube amps are the same as guitar amps? Or do they different design considerations? I would like about 10W any low cost solutions available?
Thanks
Boscoe
Thanks
Boscoe
No they are not the same, they have very different design considerations. Low cost solutions dont exsist anymore. 10W for bass? A bedroom amp then? Look at some old ampeg 20watt solutions perhaps.
Hi Boscoe.
They will probably move this down the paqge to the instrument amp section.
I agree with SemperFI, guitar/bass amps use the same technology as hifi amps, but the aim of the design is very different. In essence, a guitar amp should be considered part of the instrument, and we expect it to contribute its own character to the sound. COntrast that to hifi wherein we expect the amplifier to be transparent and not color the sound at all.
10 watts for an instrument amp would be considered a "practice amp." 10w is small for guitar and miniscule for bass. Not to say there are not fine sounding low powr amps, of course.
In general, we don;t build amps to save money, we build them for the joy of doing so and the satisfaction of a successful project.
However, one way to save some money is to get an old "PA" amplifier, and rebuild it to suit our needs. I don't know what is common in the UK, but over here brands like Bogen or Stromberg Carlson are easy to find inexpensively. They powered the speakers in school classrooms and similar. These Public Address amplifiers were basic, and usually just some rework in the preamp section results in a usable instrument amp.
They will probably move this down the paqge to the instrument amp section.
I agree with SemperFI, guitar/bass amps use the same technology as hifi amps, but the aim of the design is very different. In essence, a guitar amp should be considered part of the instrument, and we expect it to contribute its own character to the sound. COntrast that to hifi wherein we expect the amplifier to be transparent and not color the sound at all.
10 watts for an instrument amp would be considered a "practice amp." 10w is small for guitar and miniscule for bass. Not to say there are not fine sounding low powr amps, of course.
In general, we don;t build amps to save money, we build them for the joy of doing so and the satisfaction of a successful project.
However, one way to save some money is to get an old "PA" amplifier, and rebuild it to suit our needs. I don't know what is common in the UK, but over here brands like Bogen or Stromberg Carlson are easy to find inexpensively. They powered the speakers in school classrooms and similar. These Public Address amplifiers were basic, and usually just some rework in the preamp section results in a usable instrument amp.
Hi,
There are lots of classic bass and guitar schematics you could build.
The good ones are generally not remotely connected to hifi practise.
For around 10W to 15W valve bass amplifiers your best off looking
for cheap vintage, 15W is pathetic by modern bass standards, and
cleaning it up, combo's are good, refitted with modern speakers.
rgds, sreten.
Owner of a very old Traynor valve 12W EL84 15" bass combo.
There are lots of classic bass and guitar schematics you could build.
The good ones are generally not remotely connected to hifi practise.
For around 10W to 15W valve bass amplifiers your best off looking
for cheap vintage, 15W is pathetic by modern bass standards, and
cleaning it up, combo's are good, refitted with modern speakers.
rgds, sreten.
Owner of a very old Traynor valve 12W EL84 15" bass combo.
Hi. Check the user lem8r. He built a 400w ppp bass amp with preamp for bass.
Being push pull parallel the amount of power generated is the result, among other variables, of the number of tubes used. He also had his own transformers made to specs. He may be able to help you. He usd kt88 as output tube
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Being push pull parallel the amount of power generated is the result, among other variables, of the number of tubes used. He also had his own transformers made to specs. He may be able to help you. He usd kt88 as output tube
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I agree the least expensive option is to find an old PA amp would be the most affordable approach. At least as a donor for transformers and chassis if nothing else.
Regarding the Hi-Fi / guitar bit. I disagree with earlier posts where I find that a good modern Bass amplifier would have more in common with a high output HI-FI than a guitar amp. I suppose that would depend on the application. Many bassists want a clean pure sound that is colored by the instrument and not the amplifier.
A Fender Precision probably won't have much for high frequencies, but my Alembic probably covers a much broader frequency band. Likewise because of the broader frequency demands the SWR cab I use has a high frequency driver too. So I would suggest that Hi-Fi requirements very well can apply.
I don't think 10w will cut it. Yes for a guitar, but no way for a bass amp, even if by yourself in the bedroom. 40w minimum, 100w if with a drum kit, but probably still not enough.
Regarding the Hi-Fi / guitar bit. I disagree with earlier posts where I find that a good modern Bass amplifier would have more in common with a high output HI-FI than a guitar amp. I suppose that would depend on the application. Many bassists want a clean pure sound that is colored by the instrument and not the amplifier.
A Fender Precision probably won't have much for high frequencies, but my Alembic probably covers a much broader frequency band. Likewise because of the broader frequency demands the SWR cab I use has a high frequency driver too. So I would suggest that Hi-Fi requirements very well can apply.
I don't think 10w will cut it. Yes for a guitar, but no way for a bass amp, even if by yourself in the bedroom. 40w minimum, 100w if with a drum kit, but probably still not enough.
I disagree with your diagreement. PA amp can be a good donor of transformers for guitar amp, but for bass guitar amp the best donor is hi-fi amp. If output transformer saturated below 80 Hz such bass sounds like a teenager's garage band. I agree in such sense, it depends on application. 🙂
@Wavebourn: I agree. The transformer should not saturate at all at 41Hz. That's just the Low E fundamental. A 5 string bass with a low B tuning has a fundamental about 31Hz? Even for a 10w amp, a decent size hunk of iron is needed.
At least here in the states you can get your hands on a fixer-upper Bogen MX60 for under 100USD that would be fine bass amp. I'm not so sure about the UK.
At least here in the states you can get your hands on a fixer-upper Bogen MX60 for under 100USD that would be fine bass amp. I'm not so sure about the UK.
Bass amp thread so I'm moving it to I&A as hinted at by another member. It may get more exposure there.. 😀HiFi Opts are a good choice for a bass amp as Wavebourn and others have remarked. Edcor might still be an economical choice for the UK.
Check out this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/inst...rs-musical-director-trainees.html#post2972558
The tubes (GU50) discussed in this thread are very inexpensive and in the right push pull design should economically get you considerably more than 10 watts of output power. Since this is a bass amplifier unless it is for practice only it seems like 40 - 50W would be a more realistic target.
Anatoliy (wavebourn) is an expert with the GU50 and can probably give you some excellent pointers for use.
As you are completely new to tubes it would be wise to first read the Safety and Newbies threads in Tubes / Valves before proceeding too far.
The tubes (GU50) discussed in this thread are very inexpensive and in the right push pull design should economically get you considerably more than 10 watts of output power. Since this is a bass amplifier unless it is for practice only it seems like 40 - 50W would be a more realistic target.
Anatoliy (wavebourn) is an expert with the GU50 and can probably give you some excellent pointers for use.
As you are completely new to tubes it would be wise to first read the Safety and Newbies threads in Tubes / Valves before proceeding too far.
Give it a high efficiency speaker and there's a chance it'll be enough - Peavey do some 35w + 12" combos that go reasonably loud. They do, however, have limited bass extension and compress like crazy at the top end of the volume dial.
Not sure on the 100w for a drum kit figure. The aforementioned Peaveys will just about keep up, but they're into heavy compression at that point. I use 600w (SS, so hardly relevant).
I think it comes down to what cabinet the amplifier will be used to drive: with my 4x10" cab (>100dB@1w), 10w is very loud for home use.
A single 10" or 12" with some low end extension will need some power throwing in to get past the relatively low efficiency.
Chris
Not directed at the original question, but in regards to power. I don;t see a 1400 watt bass rig as all about loudness compared to for example a 400 watt rig. It is more about the resulting sound being more "effortless" in character, and the peaks and transients being clearer. depending upon play style, bass can be VERY peaky. I think those things sound better when they don;t slam into a brick wall on every beat. I think a 50 watt amp can make some pretty loud sounds, sure, but then so can a Volkswagen Beetle pull a trailer full of bricks down the highway...barely. I don't know that such performance equates to "keeping up."
Of course the modern approach to bass is use your rig just for stage presence and tone, then let the PA system worry about filling the house with the sound. But you are still stuck with your drummer, be he hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin.
Of course the modern approach to bass is use your rig just for stage presence and tone, then let the PA system worry about filling the house with the sound. But you are still stuck with your drummer, be he hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin.
I didnt think it would be tbh. Cost isnt an issue. He wants tubes in there somewhere fit their character so I was thinking a hybrid?
Actually ine of the best qualities of really big tubes is the fact that they play bass range notes effortlessly. As i said lem8r built a ppp 400w bass amp gor himself with mosfet followers and custom wound toroidal output transformer. We are actually wirking together on my gu81m amp so for you might want to ask him. I think his bass smp came out quite well with a very very affordable bill of materials.
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