For reasons too complicated to explain I ended up with a pair of B&W602mk3's
not my dream speaker but even straight out of the box much better than my modified rega kytes.
After a few weeks I started on some modifications the results of which have been very satisfying
the mods come in three distict areas.
rewiring and moving the crossover from speaker cabinet and placing it next to the amp.
redesigning the crossover.
removing the stuffing - all of it
more...
not my dream speaker but even straight out of the box much better than my modified rega kytes.
After a few weeks I started on some modifications the results of which have been very satisfying
the mods come in three distict areas.
rewiring and moving the crossover from speaker cabinet and placing it next to the amp.
redesigning the crossover.
removing the stuffing - all of it
more...
Attachments
Removing the stuffing is simple, self explanitory and needs no further explanation. To my ears this improved the bass speed and tone, gave more depth to the soundstage and revealed more low level detail.
I rewired the speakers with CAT5 cable, bypassing the speaker terminals, soldering directly on to the drive units and putting the cross over next to the amps.
this gives the benifit of bi-wiring without the disadvantage of higher cable capacitance seen by the amp.
I rewired the speakers with CAT5 cable, bypassing the speaker terminals, soldering directly on to the drive units and putting the cross over next to the amps.
this gives the benifit of bi-wiring without the disadvantage of higher cable capacitance seen by the amp.
Attachments
crossovers
I built the existing crossovers in spice and then made some changes that more or less maintained the frequency response
my design philosophy was
simplification
higher grade components
reducing the sharness of the 'knee' of the tweeter roll off
adding a zobel network across the bass driver
here is the original tweeter Xover cct
I built the existing crossovers in spice and then made some changes that more or less maintained the frequency response
my design philosophy was
simplification
higher grade components
reducing the sharness of the 'knee' of the tweeter roll off
adding a zobel network across the bass driver
here is the original tweeter Xover cct
Attachments
this is the complete new crossover cct
the 5uF cap in the tweeter cct is a kimber cap
the original inductor in the bass cct is now augmented with a zobel network. This improves the phase response and filters out some roughness above Xover frequency presumably from the bass/mid cone breakup.
the 5uF cap in the tweeter cct is a kimber cap
the original inductor in the bass cct is now augmented with a zobel network. This improves the phase response and filters out some roughness above Xover frequency presumably from the bass/mid cone breakup.
Attachments
finally here is my complete system
overall the mods to the speakers have given a much smoother & more coherent mid / treble
the bass is faster & cleaner
the sound staging & imaging is much better and all in all the whole thing sounds dramatically more natural.
probably the overall power handling has been reduced but this is not an issue that affect me. It goes nicely loud.
cheers
mike
overall the mods to the speakers have given a much smoother & more coherent mid / treble
the bass is faster & cleaner
the sound staging & imaging is much better and all in all the whole thing sounds dramatically more natural.
probably the overall power handling has been reduced but this is not an issue that affect me. It goes nicely loud.
cheers
mike
Attachments
SY said:
I'm afraid that it's a LOT worse than it looks.
I you only knew what was in those boxes the audio fanatics might well send the boys round sort me out for the worst kind of audio sacrilege......god Iv'e probably said too much, someone might recognize the packing........please be merciful I'm sure I'll get round to using my TD15M's one day
Mind you I think I get a few merit marks for the concrete paving slabs
mike
Congratulations, sounds like a good set of upgrades. I used to own a pair of 602s2 and I could have done with the improvements you've just described!
I do wonder about removing the foam from inside - you seem happy with the result, but was there really no adverse effect?
I once replaced the acoustic wadding in some speakers with bumpy, soft, foam-rubber carpet underlay, and MUCH preferred the sound, so I don't doubt what they put in is far from ideal.
Soon I will remove the wadding from my current speakers and use some bitumen, and a layer of stacked pieces of underlay, maybe on the inside of the top panel, something like this:
_
__\
___\
____ \
______\
(who knows what it will sound like...?)
-Simon
I do wonder about removing the foam from inside - you seem happy with the result, but was there really no adverse effect?
I once replaced the acoustic wadding in some speakers with bumpy, soft, foam-rubber carpet underlay, and MUCH preferred the sound, so I don't doubt what they put in is far from ideal.
Soon I will remove the wadding from my current speakers and use some bitumen, and a layer of stacked pieces of underlay, maybe on the inside of the top panel, something like this:
_
__\
___\
____ \
______\
(who knows what it will sound like...?)
-Simon
"I do wonder about removing the foam from inside - you seem happy with the result, but was there really no adverse effect?"
yes - there is some hint of the cabinet but the benefits by far outway this. I am thinking about that sorbathane sheet but...
ultimately I would make a curved back for the speakers, taking out the stuffing would effectively reduce the volume so a curved back would counter this and should make the cabinet less obvious.
mike
yes - there is some hint of the cabinet but the benefits by far outway this. I am thinking about that sorbathane sheet but...
ultimately I would make a curved back for the speakers, taking out the stuffing would effectively reduce the volume so a curved back would counter this and should make the cabinet less obvious.
mike
Mike,
now that you have seperated out the crossover, had any thoughts about building a line level one and going active?
James
now that you have seperated out the crossover, had any thoughts about building a line level one and going active?
James
nemestra said:
not at the moment - my preamp is a S&B 102Mk 2 transformer volume control - i'm not convinced that an active setup could match the transparency that I get with this. But I do appreciate that other aspects of the performance could well improve.
Mike,
Curved sounds good, mine uses non-parallel front, back, top and bottom panels, sides are parallel though (and the cabinet seems to contribute fairly little).
Foam, or at least wadding/wool *increases* the effective volume, fully stuffed the increase is ~10-15%, apparently. To get a similar volume *and* add panels inside you'd have to add long-haired wool or something similar, which you may or may not prefer the sound of, i.e. it might be better than the original foam.
Buy some bitumen and line the cabinet with that, I bet that will improve things, if you want an accurate sound. This is something I'd very much like to try. Monitor Audio are thinking of using bitumen in their higher-end models soon, so it must be good... 😉 It's done wonders for my cd player already.
One thing about these speakers though. I gather the 600 series' cabinets are designed not to be acoustically dead, instead they are designed to resonate over a certain frequency range to colour the sound in a *pleasant* way - how else could the 603s make so much bass
Anyway, I for one would love to hear what else you do, if anything. Bo selecta, I tell thi...
-Simon
Curved sounds good, mine uses non-parallel front, back, top and bottom panels, sides are parallel though (and the cabinet seems to contribute fairly little).
Foam, or at least wadding/wool *increases* the effective volume, fully stuffed the increase is ~10-15%, apparently. To get a similar volume *and* add panels inside you'd have to add long-haired wool or something similar, which you may or may not prefer the sound of, i.e. it might be better than the original foam.
Buy some bitumen and line the cabinet with that, I bet that will improve things, if you want an accurate sound. This is something I'd very much like to try. Monitor Audio are thinking of using bitumen in their higher-end models soon, so it must be good... 😉 It's done wonders for my cd player already.
One thing about these speakers though. I gather the 600 series' cabinets are designed not to be acoustically dead, instead they are designed to resonate over a certain frequency range to colour the sound in a *pleasant* way - how else could the 603s make so much bass
Anyway, I for one would love to hear what else you do, if anything. Bo selecta, I tell thi...
-Simon
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