Greetings all,
thank you again for all the replies.
Regretfully, as mentioned, this is all new to me, so I do not know how to ascertain the cartridge condition, nor do I understand some of the terminology and relate them to what I have, e.g., "low mass or ULM arm".
I do not know how to best approach this. My motivation to have it working correctly is that I acquired some vinyl with performances that I cannot find on CD's, Consequently, I would hate to damage them by incorrect set-up. I guess, just like eating an elephant, one bite at a time; at least now I know that (i) the cartridge may be a good one, and (ii) I need to look for an MM preamplifier.
Hi 6L6,
I am not sure what you mean by the entire setup, do you mean the tonearm/cartridge assembly? If so, please see below, if not let me know what you would like to see.
Kindest regards,
M
thank you again for all the replies.
Regretfully, as mentioned, this is all new to me, so I do not know how to ascertain the cartridge condition, nor do I understand some of the terminology and relate them to what I have, e.g., "low mass or ULM arm".
I do not know how to best approach this. My motivation to have it working correctly is that I acquired some vinyl with performances that I cannot find on CD's, Consequently, I would hate to damage them by incorrect set-up. I guess, just like eating an elephant, one bite at a time; at least now I know that (i) the cartridge may be a good one, and (ii) I need to look for an MM preamplifier.
Hi 6L6,
I am not sure what you mean by the entire setup, do you mean the tonearm/cartridge assembly? If so, please see below, if not let me know what you would like to see.
Kindest regards,
M
Was wanting to see the entire table, but that’s good enough. 🙂
Luxman PD121 with an Infinity Black Widow tonearm. Very nice indeed, somebody spent a pretty penny when that was new. Do your best to keep it in good shape and it will serve you well.
The Black Widow is considered a “ULM”, which mean Ultra Low Mass tonearm. (Somebody mentioned that earlier). It’s an excellent arm, no question. If you find yourself needing to replace the cartridge you need to get a cartridge that will work with it, as not all will. (Cartridges) You’ll need a “high compliance” cartridge, (meaning the cantilever suspension is squishier than average) and also preferable to have a lighter rather than heavier cartridge. Or you can call up SoundSmith and have that one rebuilt, which may be your best option. (Again, if needed.) But in the meantime, the B&O is a stellar cart for that arm and I suspect it’s going to all work out wonderfully.
Luxman PD121 with an Infinity Black Widow tonearm. Very nice indeed, somebody spent a pretty penny when that was new. Do your best to keep it in good shape and it will serve you well.
The Black Widow is considered a “ULM”, which mean Ultra Low Mass tonearm. (Somebody mentioned that earlier). It’s an excellent arm, no question. If you find yourself needing to replace the cartridge you need to get a cartridge that will work with it, as not all will. (Cartridges) You’ll need a “high compliance” cartridge, (meaning the cantilever suspension is squishier than average) and also preferable to have a lighter rather than heavier cartridge. Or you can call up SoundSmith and have that one rebuilt, which may be your best option. (Again, if needed.) But in the meantime, the B&O is a stellar cart for that arm and I suspect it’s going to all work out wonderfully.
You can also get that cart rebuilt by soundsmith when the time comes. They are the official from b&o and even sell new ones they make. That cartridge was the only thing b&o ever made that was generally considered a bargain for the price because of how good it was. The modern version is the $2000 Soundsmith Aida MKii. A new mmc20cl is much less for same tech from them due to different body and mounting etc.
Hi 6L6,
thank you for the reply, and identifying the tonearm. Well, I could not resist and performed some search, and I started wondering what I gotten myself into, as the tonearm needs "older high compliance cartridges", just like you wrote. That means that the cartridges will likely be high prices due to their limited supply. Just my luck.
And yes, the turntable belonged to a friend who has been known to acquire close to the top of the line items. Although the Internet describes the turntable as entry to average.
On a different note, I will take a picture of the turntable tomorrow, it is too dark here already. Anything in particular that you would like to see?
Hi vanofmonks,
you have just confirmed my worry about the prices, $2000 for a cartridge? How long do those things last?
Kindest regards,
M
thank you for the reply, and identifying the tonearm. Well, I could not resist and performed some search, and I started wondering what I gotten myself into, as the tonearm needs "older high compliance cartridges", just like you wrote. That means that the cartridges will likely be high prices due to their limited supply. Just my luck.
And yes, the turntable belonged to a friend who has been known to acquire close to the top of the line items. Although the Internet describes the turntable as entry to average.
On a different note, I will take a picture of the turntable tomorrow, it is too dark here already. Anything in particular that you would like to see?
Hi vanofmonks,
you have just confirmed my worry about the prices, $2000 for a cartridge? How long do those things last?
Kindest regards,
M
Congrats with the turntable/arm.
As @6L6 so perfectly writes....... If you "must" use a B/O cartridge in other arms, Infinity Black Widow or
Audio Thechnica´s AT-1100 are excellent choices.
Just make sure, the arm is mounted correctly (pivot to spindle distance) and the cartridge is setup correctly (protractor).
Then you´re in for good sound.
If "pivot to spindle" & "protractor" & "overhang" feels like speaking russian to you, I´m sure you can find people with knowledge in
your area to help you.
Good luck with your new found passion 👍 👍
As @6L6 so perfectly writes....... If you "must" use a B/O cartridge in other arms, Infinity Black Widow or
Audio Thechnica´s AT-1100 are excellent choices.
Just make sure, the arm is mounted correctly (pivot to spindle distance) and the cartridge is setup correctly (protractor).
Then you´re in for good sound.
If "pivot to spindle" & "protractor" & "overhang" feels like speaking russian to you, I´m sure you can find people with knowledge in
your area to help you.
Good luck with your new found passion 👍 👍
Yes, the MMC 20CL was top of the MMC 20 range. Carelessly, I omitted the 20 after the MMC when quoting from my Beocentral link.
Last edited:
@mefistofelez No, you misunderstand, all I am getting at is you need to be aware of cartridge compatibility issues with that arm, not that you are locked into unobtanium vintage stuff. There are suitable, modern production, reasonably priced units that will work nicely with it.
Also, don’t believe the internet, that’s a heck of a nice turntable .
Also, don’t believe the internet, that’s a heck of a nice turntable .
I can't currently find that $2000 cartridge on the Soundsmith site: https://www.sound-smith.com/search/node/Soundsmith Aida MKii
Till the stylus wears out (say after 1,000 playing hours) when the B&O style cartridge must be returned for a rebuild.
If the money is no object world of high end audio looks a tad too rich to you, consider these options:
- Sell the turntable and use some of the proceeds to buy a more basic model better suited to your needs.
- Buy the most basic MMC20 cartridge in the Soundsmith range, the SMMC20E, at a more affordable $280: https://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/bo/smmc20e
https://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/fixed-coil/aida
And costs $350 for a rebuild when it wears out.
Or you can look here and scroll down to the MMC range and see the entry is 280, and the 20cl equivalent is 800. Soundsmith will rebuild the one you have for 600. https://www.sound-smith.com/rebuilding-your-bo-cartridge
And costs $350 for a rebuild when it wears out.
Or you can look here and scroll down to the MMC range and see the entry is 280, and the 20cl equivalent is 800. Soundsmith will rebuild the one you have for 600. https://www.sound-smith.com/rebuilding-your-bo-cartridge
Hi Boydk,
Hi 6L6,
This is the best I could do, the lid is in the way.
Hi Galu, vanofmonks,
thank you for the references, I am still in shock about the "bargain" prices. And one still needs a phono preamplifier.
Could anyone recommend a (preferably DIY) one?
Kindest regards,
M
Actually, I pretend to speak Russian. So let us say that it sounds Greek to me. 😉 Regarding help, I live in the middle of nowhere, so I am afraid that I am on my own. That said, thank you for the terminology, I will search for them.
Hi 6L6,
I did, indeed, misunderstood, which was further solidified by doing some searches, where people were referring to vintage cartridges, cf. your appropriate warning about trusting Internet. 🙂 So, thank you for the clarification.
This is the best I could do, the lid is in the way.
Hi Galu, vanofmonks,
thank you for the references, I am still in shock about the "bargain" prices. And one still needs a phono preamplifier.
Could anyone recommend a (preferably DIY) one?
Kindest regards,
M
What's the budget and scope? If you need something to get it working that is a very good product regardless, you can't go wrong with a Schiit Mani. https://www.schiit.com/products/mani
Essentially all DIY projects will be more expensive.
If you want to dive in and go for something very high performance, I'm rather partial to Pearl 3 - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/pearl-3-burning-amp-2023.404054/
Click and read all the links in post 1
Essentially all DIY projects will be more expensive.
If you want to dive in and go for something very high performance, I'm rather partial to Pearl 3 - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/pearl-3-burning-amp-2023.404054/
Click and read all the links in post 1
I tried to do an imaginary measurement from your picture.
Really difficult from the angle an camera distortion from the picture.
BUT....... It actually looks (to me) like, the Widow arm was just placed in the same hole as the previous arm, which
might have been shorter.
"Pivot to spindle"...... Try and move the arm in over the platter, until the cartridge is right over the spindle. The needle tip
is supposed to go past the spindle with 14,3 - 14,4 mm. From the picture it seems to me to be far more (I could be wrong)
This measurement is called "Overhang".
When this is in place, you use the "Protactor" to align the cartridge, after the arm has been placed correctly.
Beneat is a couple of helpful links. Be sure to read the whole Vinylengine-thread. Quite informative 😉
https://bradshirakawa2.wordpress.co...13/06/infinity-black-widow-install-manual.pdf
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=1006
Really difficult from the angle an camera distortion from the picture.
BUT....... It actually looks (to me) like, the Widow arm was just placed in the same hole as the previous arm, which
might have been shorter.
"Pivot to spindle"...... Try and move the arm in over the platter, until the cartridge is right over the spindle. The needle tip
is supposed to go past the spindle with 14,3 - 14,4 mm. From the picture it seems to me to be far more (I could be wrong)
This measurement is called "Overhang".
When this is in place, you use the "Protactor" to align the cartridge, after the arm has been placed correctly.
Beneat is a couple of helpful links. Be sure to read the whole Vinylengine-thread. Quite informative 😉
https://bradshirakawa2.wordpress.co...13/06/infinity-black-widow-install-manual.pdf
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=1006
Hi Boydk,
thank you very much for your attempt to help. I, too, have found the manual, but as you can see from the photo I posted, there is no base as shown therein. So, I concur that it was mounted in the same hole. I think that the base can be rotated thus changing the distance.
I actually talked to a friend, who lives about two hours away, and he gave me an earful; which simplified boils down to - do not even attempt it on your own, you have to see how it is done, and you need some tools.
So, given the rather expensive components, I will drive there when he has some time.
Kindest regards,
M
thank you very much for your attempt to help. I, too, have found the manual, but as you can see from the photo I posted, there is no base as shown therein. So, I concur that it was mounted in the same hole. I think that the base can be rotated thus changing the distance.
I actually talked to a friend, who lives about two hours away, and he gave me an earful; which simplified boils down to - do not even attempt it on your own, you have to see how it is done, and you need some tools.
So, given the rather expensive components, I will drive there when he has some time.
Kindest regards,
M
@rayma
You´re missing the point here.
The base plate, onto which the tonearm is mounted.
If the hole in the baseplate is NOT in the center, rotating the base plate will alter the "pivot/spindle" distance.
Either that, or drill a new hole in the base plate.
You´re missing the point here.
The base plate, onto which the tonearm is mounted.
If the hole in the baseplate is NOT in the center, rotating the base plate will alter the "pivot/spindle" distance.
Either that, or drill a new hole in the base plate.