so if only trained listeners can detect language phonetics where does that fit into perceptual studies?
if only trained listeners are used in product evaluation what value is that to product development?
maybe some purple microdot would help....
if only trained listeners are used in product evaluation what value is that to product development?
maybe some purple microdot would help....
It has some vowels that people not brought up in the language find it difficult to differentiate YouTube
And I believe these are used in researching this narrowing
It's a given that when the question being asked in perceptual tests is "Is a discernible difference detectable" then trained listeners are usually used when differences are considered small. What is being asked is about the limits of auditory perception. If the question being asked is "do a random selection of people discern a difference with random equipment" then anything goes & results are similarly random. - that is why you never see such 'tests' other than on audio forums - they are pretty meaningless but maybe some conclusions can be drawn?
Well, we are all subject to this due to our brain neurology but you may be pointing to me with that remark without having any self- knowledge/inspection of your own behavior/thinkingturk said:
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Those are easy to differentiate and I have no childhood exposure to Hindi unlike numbers 5 and 6 of my research program. Research I have seen (albeit from the 70s) shows that native american languages were often used. I can see from a lazy search via wikipedia that some more recent research (2009) used hindi as well as french, english and spanish. But I would want to see more than one paper referenced.
Yes, there are other language sounds used which can illustrate the same "perceptual narrowing" as indeed "perceptual narrowing" also impacts facial discrimination with own species own race.
"Perceptual Narrowing During Infancy: A Comparison of Language and Faces"
@turk 182 - I see you & others are having trouble with exactly that issue on "Listening test part II" - what does it tell you?
Try organic, less poisons 😉.
The second stage of "perceptual narrowing" is in the first year of schooling.....we have it drummed into us that we have only five senses, which is not at all true. By this "perceptual narrowing" we are prone to slavishly believing all that we are subsequently taught of the sciences. The result is that we become forcibly blinkered to aspects of physical reality that exist but are vehemently denied by mainstream academia. One example would be dowsing/divining sense, which is a combination of several 'extra' senses and possessed by all except we have been convinced that we do not have such sensing ability. We therefore do not develop, practice and confirm this inate ability, and much to our detriment. I could continue this aspect, but suffice to say this 'denial' has been led by the churches to the detriment of mankind, and I say this is a conspiracy of the highest order, confirmed by the knowledge that churches employed dowsers to site places of worship, in particular floor plans that force parishioners to shuffle over 'hot spots'.
Same as my comment above, we are 'hypnotised' into conforming to 'approved' modes of thinking and behaviours.
Is it that 'seldom traveled neurological pathways are activated', or is it that existing neurological pathways (and senses) become distorted/amplified/diminished leading to different conception of realities. More experimentation is required to help establish the modality.
I do sighted AB tests all the time...good training for ABX testing. I constantly switch modes of listening at will and on the fly...ie analytical listening or pleasure listening as the time and mood finds me. The null results perhaps confirm that the unwashed listener does not really care about ultimate sound quality and/or is not a 'trained' listener.
Dan.
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I've no particular expertise in this area but I was working from the premise that there are a number of different types of serotonin receptors & I don't know if the LSD molecule has a particular structure which fits to one type of these receptors - so my explanation is simple. From my practical experience, & what I know from the research, it seemed to me that alternate neurological pathways were being fired.Is it that 'seldom traveled neurological pathways are activated', or is it that existing neurological pathways (and senses) become distorted/amplified/diminished leading to different conception of realities.
More experimentation is required to help establish the modality.
It's necessary
Me too
Maybe but I think it's more complex than that - I believe most people recognize better sound given the time & a non-challenging environment (although maybe they don;t care about it?) unless their beliefs prevent them from doing so (these often want proof). Most audiophiles end up so confused that they fall back on the old adage "it's all preference", "we all hear different"
Sometimes differences are small & not really worth bothering about but worth keeping in mind as we can often find when we improve playback what once appeared small can now be worthwhile. It's a journey & a case of removing masking factors that prevent the production of a believable illusion
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Again this was known 50 years ago and on the same programs I saw in the 70s on auditory perception with age. Parents for the last 40 years or so have been playing language tapes and music to unborn babies in the hope of kick-starting a genius. Is there anything new?
I didn't say it was new (not sure I've seen it mentioned before on this forum, though?) - I was just pondering on this well known developmental stage.
it tells me more personal research needs to be done and i need to resolve how i was able to detect differences in the fruit files (complex information) but rashed out on the sine files (more basic stimulus, as in single frequency with distortion)....?
and if a few where able to get positive results despite the differences in play back systems is that not significant?
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Well we are meandering 😀 - hopefully it's a path of interest to some, maybe not you?
Why did they get positive results - is their equipment distorting at the frequencies which make the differences audible? Some who didn't hear differences found out that their equipment was sub-par & when DSP was applied they could then hear it.
I don't want to appear overly cynical - these questions should always be asked - is there a possibility that there is now an unbalance in something other than frequency? How would one go about investigating this?
Well insofar as a group of blokes taking **** about something they aren't well versed in this seems about on par for a lounge thread. It might lead somewhere who can tell...
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