What a bunch of ********.
Here's his fundamental problem..
"... but the effects are so infinitesimal that they can't possibly make audible difference..."
Do you see the epistemological fault in his reasoning?
He claims that he is doing rigorous testing but then he says this:
"... There's no question that LPs and tubes sound different from CDs and solid state gear. But are they better? Not in any way you could possibly measure.. "
See? He dismisses facts that don't fit his measurement criteria.
So, now a real scientist who understands Western Empirical Science would immediately realize that if we hear a difference but we can not possibly measure it, then perhaps we our measuring methods are inadequate and our psychoacoustic paradigm is incomplete, but NOOO, Winer KNOWS everything.
Western Empirical Science vs Greek Classical Science:
Greek classical science ... primarily relied on philosophical reasoning and observation rather than rigorous experimentation, whereas Western empirical science heavily emphasizes a systematic approach with controlled experiments to test hypotheses and gather evidence... essentially, Greek science focused on theoretical understanding through logic, while Western science prioritizes practical verification through data collection and experimentation
Do you see Winer's fundamental problem then? He starts with the BELIEF that our current measurements are sufficient to determine what we hear. When he finds out that perhaps there is data that proves otherwise, he dismisses the data and ridicules those who bring it up to him.
WINER is an idiot savant. I find that many people who have reached the level of technician think they know it all. When in reality they know very little. They've been taught the WHAT, but have no clue about the WHY.
That article quoted from Winer is just a bunch of self aggrandizement caca... He will explain it all.. guilty of appeal to authority. A Logical Fallacy.
Here's his fundamental problem..
"... but the effects are so infinitesimal that they can't possibly make audible difference..."
Do you see the epistemological fault in his reasoning?
He claims that he is doing rigorous testing but then he says this:
"... There's no question that LPs and tubes sound different from CDs and solid state gear. But are they better? Not in any way you could possibly measure.. "
See? He dismisses facts that don't fit his measurement criteria.
So, now a real scientist who understands Western Empirical Science would immediately realize that if we hear a difference but we can not possibly measure it, then perhaps we our measuring methods are inadequate and our psychoacoustic paradigm is incomplete, but NOOO, Winer KNOWS everything.
Western Empirical Science vs Greek Classical Science:
Greek classical science ... primarily relied on philosophical reasoning and observation rather than rigorous experimentation, whereas Western empirical science heavily emphasizes a systematic approach with controlled experiments to test hypotheses and gather evidence... essentially, Greek science focused on theoretical understanding through logic, while Western science prioritizes practical verification through data collection and experimentation
Do you see Winer's fundamental problem then? He starts with the BELIEF that our current measurements are sufficient to determine what we hear. When he finds out that perhaps there is data that proves otherwise, he dismisses the data and ridicules those who bring it up to him.
WINER is an idiot savant. I find that many people who have reached the level of technician think they know it all. When in reality they know very little. They've been taught the WHAT, but have no clue about the WHY.
That article quoted from Winer is just a bunch of self aggrandizement caca... He will explain it all.. guilty of appeal to authority. A Logical Fallacy.
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, people can buy 'speaker rocks', 'speaker bullets', $500 metre wire, special wall plugs etc and if they think they can hear a difference or do hear a difference, fine. Maybe there is a difference for someone with exceptional hearing, maybe not; certainly not for me, as my hearing cuts out at about 10,000Hz.
Perhaps it's confirmation bias, or the placebo effect, where if you think, or are told, that something will make a difference, you will taste it or hear it?
We knew someone who would only drink X brand "Crown' lager, so his family kept one bottle and re-filled it with an 'inferior' label from the same brand - he was never able to tell the difference. When given a bottle of the 'inferior' brew, he said 'I'm not drinking that p - -'
Geoff
Perhaps it's confirmation bias, or the placebo effect, where if you think, or are told, that something will make a difference, you will taste it or hear it?
We knew someone who would only drink X brand "Crown' lager, so his family kept one bottle and re-filled it with an 'inferior' label from the same brand - he was never able to tell the difference. When given a bottle of the 'inferior' brew, he said 'I'm not drinking that p - -'
Geoff
Well, at a certain point physics has to stop. It is when sound - musical sound- reaches to our ears.
Better, when it leaves the speakers ( but don't tell it to anyone!!), so we can focus better on the definition of sound and how it is recognized by our brains.
Digital and analog are two worlds and both are capable of rendering the musical experience but one is inferior to the other...
Better, when it leaves the speakers ( but don't tell it to anyone!!), so we can focus better on the definition of sound and how it is recognized by our brains.
Digital and analog are two worlds and both are capable of rendering the musical experience but one is inferior to the other...
Other types of sound are recognized too but require less activity.
Indeed, talking about digital, it is by its nature hyperactive, 'cos it needs to elaborate continuously the 'bricks' that form(later) the sound. So this extra processing is a sort of delay that is omitted in the analog media - the track already contains the information that needs to be picked up and n and with little processing and amplification is ready to be transduced/spreaded in space
I'll repeat that it's a waste of typing time to repeat such threads that only proclaim controversy.- Status
- Not open for further replies.