You are ignorant. Just suck it up. You don't understand how the ethernet/IP stack relates to a DAC. Please stay out of the discussion as you are miss-leading others.
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It almost never gets done because the persons with the outrageous claims almost always rationalize (heh) away the validity of blind testing. Then they carry on living their lives depending of a whole host of items that wouldn't exist it it were not for blind testing.
Recently i conducted a simple experiment, just to establish how far is the "ideal".
Ran the dac with the ethernet cable plugged at both ends, just one end, or not at all. That is with JCRiver where memory playback is enabled by default.
The results were interesting. Have you tested this yourself?
Just as a reminder. 100BaseTx which most setups will run is galvanically isolated, although unshielded. STP is available but it's a PITA as stiff. The clock is a smidge over 30MHz so anything underthat is expected to be signal and will be passed through but no chance of ground loops. So what could it pick up? Well measurements are available Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: On the value for ethernet "galvanic isolation"... which shows a smidge of mains frequency and sod all else.
If there is a problem, its not the switch and its not the Cat5e cable. Personally I can't hear mains hum 130dB down anyway. I must be getting old!
If there is a problem, its not the switch and its not the Cat5e cable. Personally I can't hear mains hum 130dB down anyway. I must be getting old!
If the switch has an effect on the sound as it travels from the storage device to the playback device, why doesn’t it have an effect on the sound as it travels from server to server, or from one storage medium to another?
In other words, what’s so special about travelling to a playback device that isn’t special about travelling to a non-playback device? Or do you need “audiophile grade” switches to download your music off the Internet too? Does downloading a lossless file with an audio grade switch make it sound “more defined” and “open” vs just using a bog-standard d-link?
In other words, what’s so special about travelling to a playback device that isn’t special about travelling to a non-playback device? Or do you need “audiophile grade” switches to download your music off the Internet too? Does downloading a lossless file with an audio grade switch make it sound “more defined” and “open” vs just using a bog-standard d-link?
When some say they are
It does make one wonder if it's not just a matter of misguided control freakery
Hmm. A new niche!
So, save a file that's been transferred using a standard ethernet switch. Then save a file that's been transferred using an audiophile switch. Compare the files. No change = no change.
I'm on satellite internet, do I need an audiophile dish/receiver to download music files?
The least you could do is replace the caps in your dish receiver with Mundorfs, man!
Come on! Get with the program!
This is a fun thread.
The wise Nelson Pass likes to remind us ... this is entertainment. Have fun even if you are blindly spending your money that you probably have more than enough of. If it brings you joy just do it but don't ask for public validation or agreement.
Top 5 Most Expensive Dog Hair Cuts — Spoilt Rotten Dogs
Mariah spends $22K per year on dog grooming but who thinks that is money well spent.
If you honestly think a network switch makes any difference then have you ever wondered what hardware is used to manage trillions of dollars and euro every minute of every day including yours? How can banks use less than audiophile quality network hardware when the stakes are that high?
Just enjoy it and share pictures.
The wise Nelson Pass likes to remind us ... this is entertainment. Have fun even if you are blindly spending your money that you probably have more than enough of. If it brings you joy just do it but don't ask for public validation or agreement.
Top 5 Most Expensive Dog Hair Cuts — Spoilt Rotten Dogs
Mariah spends $22K per year on dog grooming but who thinks that is money well spent.
If you honestly think a network switch makes any difference then have you ever wondered what hardware is used to manage trillions of dollars and euro every minute of every day including yours? How can banks use less than audiophile quality network hardware when the stakes are that high?
Just enjoy it and share pictures.
Basically planet10 just pointed out that the argument of data integrity is insufficient.
Being convinced that an exchange of a "whatever" (like an ethernet switch in this case) can not lead to an audible difference is fine, but generally it helps to think about the premises that have to be true so that the conclusion is correct.
Plausible is not a synonym for correct; the list of interface protocols (and implementations) that never could lead to audible differences, but nevertheless did (or better to say where a physical possible reason for audible differences was found after through analyses), is quite long and the data integrity wasn't the reason in each case afair. It usually are second or third order effects.
If you remember the recent argument about the "data transport from server to server"; it illustrates where the models used for the argument differs from reality.
Data integrity is a necessity for any interface but it is insufficient for the mentioned conclusion.
(Disclaimer: That is just a general remark, I do not develop or sell ethernet switches nor have I done sensory tests on this kind of effects)
No. planet10 only demonstrated he has an incorrect understanding of how the FULL digital audio path works. I suspect you may not understand either. If you do understand, you're doing everyone a disservice by attempting to create doubt where none needs to exist.
1. Ethernet is not on the same clock domain as your data converter. Jitter only matters at the data converter. Any "jitter" on the network transport is completely irrelevant because the data is fully buffered at the endpoint before it gets clocked out into the DAC clock domain.
2. Standard Ethernet is galvanically isolated on both sides via pulse transformers.
Those are facts. Now tell me via what mechanism substituting one 100% compliant switch or Cat 5e cable for another affects the analog output. If you want to bring up some RF ingress bogeyman then bring measurements and hopefully you don't have any other cables attached to your precious box.
1. Ethernet is not on the same clock domain as your data converter. Jitter only matters at the data converter. Any "jitter" on the network transport is completely irrelevant because the data is fully buffered at the endpoint before it gets clocked out into the DAC clock domain.
2. Standard Ethernet is galvanically isolated on both sides via pulse transformers.
Those are facts. Now tell me via what mechanism substituting one 100% compliant switch or Cat 5e cable for another affects the analog output. If you want to bring up some RF ingress bogeyman then bring measurements and hopefully you don't have any other cables attached to your precious box.
Memory playback, another piece of BS from people who don't know how computers work.
Your DAC is broken or you're hearing things. Pick one.
Go retrofit optical SFP transceivers to your gear and use fiber if you are this paranoid. Don't worry, you'll probably come back posting about how different optical fiber sounds different.
Well if the list is long lets have a few written down so we can see if they are applicable to ethernet.
Isn't that what he means by "audio development"? Planet 10 does this too by making extraordinary claims without any extraordinary evidence, from an assumed position of authority, whilst simultaneously displaying a lack of basic understanding, there is evidence of that all over this forum.
My understanding is this :
Data from internet switch arrives at your ethernet to usb hardware bit perfect...of course
However the noise thats on ethernet lines and the phase noise on the data bits WILL modulate your CPU thus USB packets and find their way to your DAC.
Just want to add that galvanic isolation still leaks some noise into end device..
Is it very clear that THD+N will not change ...from the amount of reviews (positive) and reports, there is a correlation between SQ and those USB packets noise.
Data from internet switch arrives at your ethernet to usb hardware bit perfect...of course
However the noise thats on ethernet lines and the phase noise on the data bits WILL modulate your CPU thus USB packets and find their way to your DAC.
Just want to add that galvanic isolation still leaks some noise into end device..
Is it very clear that THD+N will not change ...from the amount of reviews (positive) and reports, there is a correlation between SQ and those USB packets noise.
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That has a simple explanation...as long as you keep the data on digital domain no effect.
When digital data changes to analog , noise on the DATA might change the perception of SQ. I say " might" because there is no proof looking at THD+N with AP machines .
Still , I generally put my trust into people (they listen to the music not the AP machine) and most hear a SQ bump..
Ethernet is not SPDIF there is no phase noise issue on the data. And please define this 'noise' so we can quantify.
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