Yes I am sure they are smooth as butter - just as long the sound doesn't get to sticky with all that oil in there 😛
I actually have no idea if oil filled caps has any scientific basis, or it is just snake oil (very appropriate here!). But the concept seems very appealing somehow, just as long as I don't have to change the oil every 10.000 miles (or km) 😀
I actually have no idea if oil filled caps has any scientific basis, or it is just snake oil (very appropriate here!). But the concept seems very appealing somehow, just as long as I don't have to change the oil every 10.000 miles (or km) 😀
I believe in your theory, with a small modification....Angst is inversely related to knowledge, experience, and perception of hearing quality, but directly related to disposable income.
I fully understand how this stuff works, have been building audio equipment for over 50 years, know that my hearing sucks, and don't want to spend more than I have to, so.....
My speaker wire comes from Walmart (good 12 gauge stuff), interconnects from Radio Shack (again decent but reasonably priced), and my power cord came off an old computer. I use good quality components in my amp builds, but nothing overpriced with a few exceptions.
The OPT in a tube amp is responsible for 90% of the amp's sound, so it makes sense to use good quality parts where the application warrants it. I have good Electra Print OPT's in my TSE DHT SE amp, but $29 Edcors in the little amp that is used for my computer speakers, because the solid state powered sub handles the low frequencies, and the little Edcors go to 50KHz.
I have tried some $10 coupling caps, and still use them in my TSE, but I don't hear much (if any) difference between them and the $2 caps. That amp is in a clear Lexan case and gets taken to "audiophile" gatherings, so it needs to "look impressive" because of the audience.
I feel confident in my amp builds, and dozens of users agree, but there are those nagging moments......
I used to build custom amps for customers, and when you do that, you use whatever the customer wants. About 10 years ago I built an expensive headphone amp for a customer where cost didn't matter. He had brought his cans, music, CD player, and a selection of tubes for me to use in the design. He scoffed at my Sovtek 5AR4's and wanted to use his vintage Mullard's, OK I obliged.......After the amp was done we decided to play a game of rate the rectifier tubes.
He had brought 3 Mullards, the expensive kind with the metal base, and I had a selection of NOS and used vintage American 5AR4's, as well as Shuguang and Sovtek. I also had a Sovtek with one weak plate. I set up a testing session where the headphone wire ran under the door into another room, so that the listener could not see what was being tested. We had agreed on a few of his musical selections (classical, jazz, and vocal) and a couple of mine (vintage rock that he was not familiar with). He took some time with my music in advance to pick out passages that he would be able to use for comparison.
We took turns listening to 2 different RECTIFIER tubes at a time, and deciding which one was better. This went on for a couple of hours. The measured B+ voltage was within a volt or two with all tubes except the weak Sovtek. It was about 5 volts lower. The only tube I could reliably detect was the weak Sovtek. He could detect his Mullard tubes nearly every time when the comparison tube was a Sovtek or Shuguang. He was considerably better than 50% accurate when a Mullard was compared with NOS or used, except for some RCA branded Sylvania's that I had. There things were not as cut and dry....
He liked the Sylvania's, so I traded him a pair for one of his prized Mullards. I have never used it, but my TSE does have one of the old Sylvania's in it for another reason.....they live forever, and have no problem with a 100uF cap.
OK, this makes no sense from an engineering perspective, yet I conducted the experiment. In 41 years as an engineer at Motorola, I have taken at least a dozen classes in setting up experiments.
I have taken my amps to gatherings where they are tested against other amps, and other amps against each other, in DBT's and usually there is a consensus as to which amp sounds "better". We test amp against amp, and the test subjects vote by blind ballot. Nobody knows what's being tested, or who voted for what, except for the person conducting the test (usually, but not always, me). Testing is repeated, elimination style until two amps remain, then they face off. A testing session is usually 3 to 5 amps, with some repetition, unknown to the test subjects, to monitor repeatability.
We have also tested OPT's and caps. Here, there is usually strong opinions, but no consensus. The testing will generally sort out the cheap OPT's from the $$$ ones, and the results are repeatable, but people will have different favorites, that will reliably repeat in different test sessions.
In one session I ran similar sized (4 pound weight) 3 K ohm Electra Print VS One Electron VS Transcendar in a KT88 based SSE, then later I ran the same transformers in a 300B based TSE. The Electra Prints were voted "best" by two out of five testers, but "worst" by one. One electron got one "best" and one "worst" Transcendar was consistently in the middle.....I myself think the Electra Prints are best and, well, I sold the One Electrons....I didn't like them because they had the highest DCR by 100 ohms, and were the least efficient. To me they give up dynamics over the other two.
Caps.....no conclusions can be reached. People can "hear" a difference and can generally detect the difference between a $10 Audio Cap and a 50 cent generic poly cap from Mouser, and an old PIO, but can't decide which is better. It depends on the people, the music, and the test amp. Deciding which $$$$ cap is best...impossible. Forget cables, and I'm not even going to test speaker wire or power cords....
Angst?????? I don't know, is it real or self imposed. For some people, it's very real.
A test I would like to see performed would be to select two FT-2 caps which measure the same value, and "age" one in a system for say 500Hrs of operation.
Let the subjects listen to the broke in cap first and tell them it is so.
Then perform a double blind test to see if anyone could pick the "broke in" one. Do they actually sound different once broken in?
Let the subjects listen to the broke in cap first and tell them it is so.
Then perform a double blind test to see if anyone could pick the "broke in" one. Do they actually sound different once broken in?
That would be a cool test.....which breaks in the cap, or the listeners ears????
Sadly, I have lost my test subjects. It used to be fairly easy to scare up several interested, intelligent, people who appreciated and owned good audio equipment in South Florida. Not so here in rural West Virginia.
Sadly, I have lost my test subjects. It used to be fairly easy to scare up several interested, intelligent, people who appreciated and owned good audio equipment in South Florida. Not so here in rural West Virginia.
For people who tune into it, the differences are always audible ... so what to do about it? I've come to the realisation that all recordings can be "rescued" in terms of giving listening pleasure, if the equipment works well enough, so the simple, straightforward technique is to change things that constantly improve that factor. This is not about throwing away bits of the recording - that's a total dead end - but ensuring every last ounce of the recording is brought into the brightest light of day, so that the musical event captured dominates what one hears.
Over 30 years of using this method has proven its effectiveness, it's never failed - and means that one never worries about whether the right direction has been taken ...
George, I don't know if I can pull together the necessary resources, but maybe in a year I can try.
I think that there might be enough engineers and technicians to pull together an unbiased group to try an experiment.
I'd need your help as I haven’t the slightest clue as to how to set up the control.
If you are interested,we can talk later.
I think that there might be enough engineers and technicians to pull together an unbiased group to try an experiment.
I'd need your help as I haven’t the slightest clue as to how to set up the control.
If you are interested,we can talk later.
It will be 6 months to a year before I have a lab set up, so that's priority #1. I have laid out PC boards for several new Tubelab designs, and some are out for fab as we speak. Need a place for testing the new stuff.
On a good note, the house builder said our house will be done ahead of schedule.
On the flip side Motorola dumped their retiree health care plan leaving me on Obamacare.....They want $15,870 per year to insure us. I may have to put Tubelab back on hold and get a job just for health care.
Going to Dayton this year?
On a good note, the house builder said our house will be done ahead of schedule.
On the flip side Motorola dumped their retiree health care plan leaving me on Obamacare.....They want $15,870 per year to insure us. I may have to put Tubelab back on hold and get a job just for health care.
Going to Dayton this year?
I hadn't given Dayton much thought.
If I go, I suspect I'll drive. Flying up and back the same day cut the day short.
Are you planning on going?
If I go, I suspect I'll drive. Flying up and back the same day cut the day short.
Are you planning on going?
Dayton, yes it's only a 200 mile drive for me now so I will likely go most every year. I used to do Orlando every year, but that's now about 900 miles.
If you plan to stay overnight, make hotel plans soon. I should be in the same spot as before, but I don't remember the space numbers now.
If you plan to stay overnight, make hotel plans soon. I should be in the same spot as before, but I don't remember the space numbers now.
Google "Dayton hamfest 2014" or any other year for that matter, or insert the same string into Youtube for video. I have some pictures from years ago, but since I have been going to a swap space to sell my junk (past 4 years), I don't have time to run around taking pictures. There were some people who forwarded video and images to me. I will see if I can find some.
There is a thread that I started to discuss the Dayton Hamfest several years ago. Some of my old pictures are there. I will find it and link to is since this is not a hamfest thread. It is in the "tubes" section, maybe the mods can move it to the lounge, or everything else????
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tube...-dayton-hamfest.html?highlight=Dayton+Hamfest
There is a thread that I started to discuss the Dayton Hamfest several years ago. Some of my old pictures are there. I will find it and link to is since this is not a hamfest thread. It is in the "tubes" section, maybe the mods can move it to the lounge, or everything else????
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tube...-dayton-hamfest.html?highlight=Dayton+Hamfest
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