Hello,
I have a factory manufactured Audio Note DAC 1.1x signature with a lower spec'd AD 1865 DAC chip. Can anyone confirm in how far there is a real improvement when the DAC chip is upgraded with an AD 1865 N-K? Is there a reliable source for that vintage DAC chip? There are many offers from China and Hongkong, all pretending they are selling original stock...
Best regards
Stefan
I have a factory manufactured Audio Note DAC 1.1x signature with a lower spec'd AD 1865 DAC chip. Can anyone confirm in how far there is a real improvement when the DAC chip is upgraded with an AD 1865 N-K? Is there a reliable source for that vintage DAC chip? There are many offers from China and Hongkong, all pretending they are selling original stock...
Best regards
Stefan
Aside from the fact that any AD1865K you buy from a China or Hongkong vendor is likely a fake, there is no guarantee that a K-grade chip will be better than an ungraded chip. The ungraded chips are, as the name implies, ungraded. Any ungraded chip could measure as well or better than the average K-grade chip.
If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could piggy-back another AD1865N. That gives 3dB better S/N and allows a lower-value I/V resistor while preserving the output signal level. Beyond that, replace the CS8412/14 with a CS8415A. That allows 192K sample rates while using the original 5V PS. (Note: the CS8415A is NOT a drop-in replacement, but I think is worth the rework effort.) I've done all the above to my AN DAC and replaced the AN PIO caps with Duelund JDM+bypass.
If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could piggy-back another AD1865N. That gives 3dB better S/N and allows a lower-value I/V resistor while preserving the output signal level. Beyond that, replace the CS8412/14 with a CS8415A. That allows 192K sample rates while using the original 5V PS. (Note: the CS8415A is NOT a drop-in replacement, but I think is worth the rework effort.) I've done all the above to my AN DAC and replaced the AN PIO caps with Duelund JDM+bypass.
Hello Tam Lin,
thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I'm not so much into soldering and electronics. I think swapping the original AD1865N for AD1865N-K would be just picking out the first and plugging in the second chip, right?
Can you explain how you piggy-back the second AD1865N? Maybe you've git a picture? This mod wouldn't need anything else to be changed? Still I wonder why AN UK wouldn't do it that way too, if that would be an easier way for better results instead of using rare and expensive N-K chips?
The output caps of my unit are AN Cu PIO – do you think the Duelund JDM + bypass are better still? What is different with these instead of the AN PIOs?
Best regards
Stefan
thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I'm not so much into soldering and electronics. I think swapping the original AD1865N for AD1865N-K would be just picking out the first and plugging in the second chip, right?
Can you explain how you piggy-back the second AD1865N? Maybe you've git a picture? This mod wouldn't need anything else to be changed? Still I wonder why AN UK wouldn't do it that way too, if that would be an easier way for better results instead of using rare and expensive N-K chips?
The output caps of my unit are AN Cu PIO – do you think the Duelund JDM + bypass are better still? What is different with these instead of the AN PIOs?
Best regards
Stefan
Not if the original AD1865 is soldered: This is most likely.
Piggy-back is simply straddling the new chip over the original and soldering pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, and so on. But, as I recall, there are a couple pins that are not connected. You also have to adjust the I/V resistor because the paired DAC chips will have double the output current.
Piggy-back chips are a popular DIY hack but it is not so attractive in a new unit because it is a hack. Besides, it's more profitable to sell audiophiles upgraded resistors, capacitors, transformers, and wire. An added DAC chip is only a couple bucks, whereas the sky's-the-limit for boutique components.
Sometime, pre-Covid, I replaced the caps in the signal path in my amps and speakers with Duelund CAST. The results were very good. I didn't replace the caps in the DAC because it already had legendary AN PIO caps and I'm planning to replace the AN DAC with one I’m designing, so why bother.
Then Duelund introduced the JDM series, which was claimed to have CAST-like qualities at a much lower price. I purchased a couple JDMs for the DAC and also a few JDM bypass caps. The JDMs, by themselves, were an improvement over the AN PIO but the JDM with bypass was something else. It is so good I may never tweak again.
Hi again,
Ok, more complex than I thought – actually beyond my skills.
That sounds very interesting (and much easier to implement)! Which type of AN PIOs were in there before? Copper or tin? Which values did you take for main and bypass cap? Are both Duelund JDM copper (or silver)? Did you ever try other capacitors than AN and Duelund JDM in that place?
Best regards
Stefan
Ok, more complex than I thought – actually beyond my skills.
That sounds very interesting (and much easier to implement)! Which type of AN PIOs were in there before? Copper or tin? Which values did you take for main and bypass cap? Are both Duelund JDM copper (or silver)? Did you ever try other capacitors than AN and Duelund JDM in that place?
Best regards
Stefan
No one has answered the big question - "can you hear the difference between a 1865n & 1865n-k?
Not with my ancient hearing for sure, but would a pre 30year old be able to tell in a blind test?
Not with my ancient hearing for sure, but would a pre 30year old be able to tell in a blind test?
1) Silver foil.
2) 0.47uf and 0.01uf.
3) Tin plated copper foil.
4) No. I've tried other boutique caps in other places. On a scale of 1-10 they rated 8-10. I rate the Duelund 14-15.
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I have half a century hearing ability. I did not try on the AD1865 but did for pcm63p - J - K and AD1862N and N-J... I can't pick out any differences between the grades.
Who cares? Genuine K-grade chips are not available and, as I have just discussed, there are ways to improve an 1865 DAC way beyond what a K-grade chip can do.
Wow! Always thought that AN silver would be the last word...
Looks like being a "must do" – thanks for the input!
Would you think these would be worth as well in my Audio Note M1 preamp (instead of Jensen copper PIO)?
It just so happens that I had two K grade, sold one to a forum member and have one left which the OP was interested in. It was he who asked the question, which I will repeat - can you hear the difference - in your case, you just don't know.
I'm not disputing that changing other components may well give other sonic improvements and usally the more costly the part, the greater the claimed improvement......
Hello Tam Lin,
I followed your advice by replacing all original AN Film capacitors in my AN DAC 3 Balanced with Duelund capacitors: 0.22uF 630Vdc CAST-PIO-Cu Pure Copper Foil Capacitor, 0.47uF 630Vdc CAST-PIO-Cu Pure Copper Foil Capacitor, and 2 Duelund 0.1uF 630Vdc CAST-PIO-Cu/Ag Hybrid Copper/Silver Foil. The improvement was significant.
I'm interested in piggy-backing another AD1865, as I have a second chip on hand. Could you please explain the suggested hack for this modification?
Additionally, I'm facing an annoying issue with my DAC. I use the Denafrips Hermes as a DDC, connected to my PC via USB, and outputting AES/EBU to my DAC. The problem arises when playing files above 96 kHz or switching off my PC ; the DAC produces an irritating ticking sound that seems to come from a relay. Are there any modifications that can be implemented to avoid this ticking sound?
Regards
Hossam