It so happens, that I also built few amps over the past (unfortunately thay were all imitable). Just two weeks ago, I was listening to DK's "Plastic Surgery Disaster" and although I know this album from the day it came out (and BTW DK is one of my all time favourites, as well as Loreena), I never heard it like that before. The GC presented such nuances in the sound from the old recording, especially on Riot track, which I've never heard before. I was greatly impressed. While GC may have some defficiencies, it also makes up for them with the virtues, that few other amps really posses.
Ya know , on DrG s advice i believe i am gonna throw away my GC and the other 8 i have built and forget about the past 1.5 years i have been building them (hay it was a waste of my time according to him) and go buy something from walmart, then i am gonna sell my porshe and my cycle and buy a used yugo,NOT hahahahahahahahahahaha.
If he thinks that they are so bad performing then why the good reviews?I take it DrG that you think that the reviews of peters amp and the gaincard are wrong?Maybe you best send a line to the ppl doing the reviews and inform them that they are wrong as well as the ppl who purchsed them and all the ppl who have made gainclones OK.
Peace
ron
If he thinks that they are so bad performing then why the good reviews?I take it DrG that you think that the reviews of peters amp and the gaincard are wrong?Maybe you best send a line to the ppl doing the reviews and inform them that they are wrong as well as the ppl who purchsed them and all the ppl who have made gainclones OK.
Peace
ron
Hello DrG,
I have been reading the posts here and cannot see your point. I consider myself biased towards tubes but also have built a few SS amps and now a gainclone with LM3875.
Its new and only has a couple hours on it so I do not feel I can critique it yet, but in all fairness it does not sound "wrong" or "bad", actually I am quite surprised at it because I really was not expecting very much from it (your attitude) but was quite taken aback by its sound, after all these chips are used in boomboxes, I had thoughts that sound like your diatribe.
The fact of the matter is simply whatever floats your boat. Some people love these things, some don't (you are in the latter camp). So what? You seem to be saying that simply because its a monolithic IC it cannot sound good. Why not?
Only discrete designs can sound good???!!
The bottom line is if someone likes it, they like it. Why take that away from them?
"So let's put it this way: anyone wanting a guaranteed, functional and uncomplicated amp to play around with: go ahead and "chip" away at the IC solutions. But besides PSU, multiple forms of buffering, silver wire, P2P connections etc, there simply isn't that much you can fiddle with. The chip designers have deliberately made such experimentation impossible. But that's no reason to get narrow-minded and defensive because somebody points out these real and insurmountable limitations of chips - vide infra."
Your quote above says it best in the first sentence. A simple and reliable solution.
The second sentence is also pretty good, what you were trying to say is there's less to fornicate up. I guess you "fiddle" with your amps constantly, after all if it sounded great there would be need to fiddle with it.
Number 3 is true. The chipamps do have limitations such as not doing well with lower impedance speaker loads. I also have this problem with my Choke regulated, I.T. coupled 2A3 S.E. amp but it does not bother me because I use suitable speakers
Why not just leave us in our ignorance unless you have something constructive to add?
All the best,
Andrew
I have been reading the posts here and cannot see your point. I consider myself biased towards tubes but also have built a few SS amps and now a gainclone with LM3875.
Its new and only has a couple hours on it so I do not feel I can critique it yet, but in all fairness it does not sound "wrong" or "bad", actually I am quite surprised at it because I really was not expecting very much from it (your attitude) but was quite taken aback by its sound, after all these chips are used in boomboxes, I had thoughts that sound like your diatribe.
The fact of the matter is simply whatever floats your boat. Some people love these things, some don't (you are in the latter camp). So what? You seem to be saying that simply because its a monolithic IC it cannot sound good. Why not?
Only discrete designs can sound good???!!
The bottom line is if someone likes it, they like it. Why take that away from them?
"So let's put it this way: anyone wanting a guaranteed, functional and uncomplicated amp to play around with: go ahead and "chip" away at the IC solutions. But besides PSU, multiple forms of buffering, silver wire, P2P connections etc, there simply isn't that much you can fiddle with. The chip designers have deliberately made such experimentation impossible. But that's no reason to get narrow-minded and defensive because somebody points out these real and insurmountable limitations of chips - vide infra."
Your quote above says it best in the first sentence. A simple and reliable solution.
The second sentence is also pretty good, what you were trying to say is there's less to fornicate up. I guess you "fiddle" with your amps constantly, after all if it sounded great there would be need to fiddle with it.
Number 3 is true. The chipamps do have limitations such as not doing well with lower impedance speaker loads. I also have this problem with my Choke regulated, I.T. coupled 2A3 S.E. amp but it does not bother me because I use suitable speakers
Why not just leave us in our ignorance unless you have something constructive to add?
All the best,
Andrew
Gee guys, Don't you think DrG was kind of a troll from the beginning? "At the risk of Offending Everyone" indeed
Hello DrG,
Welcome to the board, I think you have stated your opinion just as the other side of the fence stated theirs. As long as everyone stays calm, rational and avoid personal attacks then I don't see any much point for these disscusions to carry on and get anywhere.
So which way you would like this thread to go?
If you are recruiting I will be the first one to join your school after I build the chip amp.
At the risk of offending anyone I think DrG is very welcome here as long as he is not trying to turn us into rock throwing crowds, am I?
Best Regards,
Chris
Welcome to the board, I think you have stated your opinion just as the other side of the fence stated theirs. As long as everyone stays calm, rational and avoid personal attacks then I don't see any much point for these disscusions to carry on and get anywhere.
So which way you would like this thread to go?
If you are recruiting I will be the first one to join your school after I build the chip amp.
At the risk of offending anyone I think DrG is very welcome here as long as he is not trying to turn us into rock throwing crowds, am I?
Best Regards,
Chris
DrG,
The empirical approach rules. Theory is worth nothing if not borne out by experimental evidence.
Maybe one of the South Africans that have built a GC should go over to your place and check your implementation of the LM3875. In the hands of most users here, including mine, this has proved to be an exceptional device, capable of reproducing MUSIC.
Perform the experiment....post your results here.
The empirical approach rules. Theory is worth nothing if not borne out by experimental evidence.
Maybe one of the South Africans that have built a GC should go over to your place and check your implementation of the LM3875. In the hands of most users here, including mine, this has proved to be an exceptional device, capable of reproducing MUSIC.
Perform the experiment....post your results here.
whatever, boys... whatever... A flute with no holes is not a flute. And a doughnut with no holes is a danish? Ignorance truly is bliss.
PS Mr Moderator... I had hoped for a technical debate rather than a boring exchange of defensive wit and sarcasm. So please accept my apologies. Terminating this thread would probably also be a good idea at this point.
Have a great time with the gainclones everyone. Bya.
PS Mr Moderator... I had hoped for a technical debate rather than a boring exchange of defensive wit and sarcasm. So please accept my apologies. Terminating this thread would probably also be a good idea at this point.
Have a great time with the gainclones everyone. Bya.
Discrete shun is the better part of valour. Heh!
Actually, I prefer my gear to be as unforgiving as possible. Unfortunately I can't afford better than a pair of Yorkvilles (for now). The smooth beauty of tubes can mask too many of the "flaws" that I like to hear (see also far below).
You see, in addition to the more scientific arts, I also have some jazz training, although that is definitely very rusty. For me, the recordings not only have to reproduce the musicality of the event, but the artistic skills of the musicians and even the wizardry of the sound engineers. I love hearing a slightly off-key note or a particularly even vibrato. The more truth of the actual performance I can get, the better.
In fact, the other day, I heard one of the worst restaurant bands I've heard in my life. Not only were the musicians unpracticed and the lead singer undynamic, the sound guy had the typical "smiley" EQ happening. I wanted to give some advice, but quickly realized that improving the PA would only make the band's shortcomings more obvious to the crowd, who were enjoying themselves despite the horrible performance. Similarly, many times I have rued bringing my consumer-eared friends to listen to my own set-up, because they inevitable find out that I spent less than they did on their "hi-fi" HT receiver.
I'm not quite sure if you were meaning my last post, which to some degree was meant with part of my tongue in cheek. It is difficult to convey since I have to disable smilies to sign properly. But.. I think yours also was slightly with cheek. 🙂
I didn't realize the rest of us were in in your class, teach. My impression is that DIY is mostly self-taught. Here's part of what I have learned in my short journey so far:
You forgot hat the wonderful PMC uses Bryston discrete amps as does the fairly new Blue Sky systems. If I could afford the nearly industry standard Bryston to drive my next sub, I would. But alas, it usually only doctors that could afford such luxury.
Until then, the IC amps give me more than enough. If you need more than 50W RMS per channel for any reasonable sized home, then you should have your hearing tested and/or your speakers are terribly inefficient. Really, why in the world would you want transducers that only gave 80dB when you can get 90dB with the same clarity?
I wonder how many SETs could have been shut off to prevent the great blackout...
And actually, I find that tubes are too forgiving of a bad performance (also see far above). Because they don't clip as harshly and tend to smooth out tonal dissonance, I think they are back in vogue to mask the failings of so many divas, prodigies, digital samples and poor mic'ing. In other words, stick a tube pre in front of a singer and half the predictable re-takes are eliminated. Cut...too scratchy. Cut... too tinny. Cut... too much breath. Cut... too truthful.
In that sense, I am extremely fortunate as Vancouver has a diverse music and recording industry. If I need a live performance as reference, they all pass through here eventually. I can tell you that in most cases, the recordings sound way better than live, even in small venues where I can hear the un-mic'ed sounds. Must be all the tubes just before all the opamps.
🙂ensen.
Now a pair of bi-amped chips on my slightly dis-located and now purple shoulder. 🙂
PS: Whew! Didn't realize my goat had been got so badly.
Just so you all know, I have nothing against discretes and tubes. They all have their place - discretes for massive conversion of energy into motion and tubes for prettying up some of the less than stellar sounds. I personally don't need a PA system nor do I care to have my sounds "enhanced" for my listening pleasure.
I have merely taken exception to DrG's assertion that chip amps are toys when clearly, they are employed in many professional reference systems. To start quoting the stratospheric brands in response is largely an evasion tactic since there are very few working environments that can drop the money for Krell or ATC. Bryston is an exception, since they are also a well-respected reference. I will spare you all more posts in this thread as I believe my own point has been made. J.
dhaen said:
Actually, I prefer my gear to be as unforgiving as possible. Unfortunately I can't afford better than a pair of Yorkvilles (for now). The smooth beauty of tubes can mask too many of the "flaws" that I like to hear (see also far below).
You see, in addition to the more scientific arts, I also have some jazz training, although that is definitely very rusty. For me, the recordings not only have to reproduce the musicality of the event, but the artistic skills of the musicians and even the wizardry of the sound engineers. I love hearing a slightly off-key note or a particularly even vibrato. The more truth of the actual performance I can get, the better.
In fact, the other day, I heard one of the worst restaurant bands I've heard in my life. Not only were the musicians unpracticed and the lead singer undynamic, the sound guy had the typical "smiley" EQ happening. I wanted to give some advice, but quickly realized that improving the PA would only make the band's shortcomings more obvious to the crowd, who were enjoying themselves despite the horrible performance. Similarly, many times I have rued bringing my consumer-eared friends to listen to my own set-up, because they inevitable find out that I spent less than they did on their "hi-fi" HT receiver.
Steve Eddy said:
I'm not quite sure if you were meaning my last post, which to some degree was meant with part of my tongue in cheek. It is difficult to convey since I have to disable smilies to sign properly. But.. I think yours also was slightly with cheek. 🙂
DrG said:To purplepeople: Lest you should feel left out: whereas I've little doubt use is indeed made of the studio monitors to which you refer, I also know that many respected studios use monitors by ATC, Duntech, Rogers and B&W. None of which are "chipped"... Perhaps it has to do with the kind of music being recorded.
Without wishing to get any other factions riled, I believe most amp or transducer subtleties will be drowned into oblivion by the likes of The Dead Kennedy's or Linkin Park, whereas Dianna Krall or Loreena McKennit might be more revealing of circuit variations. And I have some music of all of the above.
And, O purple one, may I add that there is a revival in tube recording desks 😱 ... and those big stage amp stacks... mostly tube, 100% chipless
Hereendeththelesson
I didn't realize the rest of us were in in your class, teach. My impression is that DIY is mostly self-taught. Here's part of what I have learned in my short journey so far:
You forgot hat the wonderful PMC uses Bryston discrete amps as does the fairly new Blue Sky systems. If I could afford the nearly industry standard Bryston to drive my next sub, I would. But alas, it usually only doctors that could afford such luxury.
Until then, the IC amps give me more than enough. If you need more than 50W RMS per channel for any reasonable sized home, then you should have your hearing tested and/or your speakers are terribly inefficient. Really, why in the world would you want transducers that only gave 80dB when you can get 90dB with the same clarity?
I wonder how many SETs could have been shut off to prevent the great blackout...
And actually, I find that tubes are too forgiving of a bad performance (also see far above). Because they don't clip as harshly and tend to smooth out tonal dissonance, I think they are back in vogue to mask the failings of so many divas, prodigies, digital samples and poor mic'ing. In other words, stick a tube pre in front of a singer and half the predictable re-takes are eliminated. Cut...too scratchy. Cut... too tinny. Cut... too much breath. Cut... too truthful.
In that sense, I am extremely fortunate as Vancouver has a diverse music and recording industry. If I need a live performance as reference, they all pass through here eventually. I can tell you that in most cases, the recordings sound way better than live, even in small venues where I can hear the un-mic'ed sounds. Must be all the tubes just before all the opamps.
🙂ensen.
Now a pair of bi-amped chips on my slightly dis-located and now purple shoulder. 🙂
PS: Whew! Didn't realize my goat had been got so badly.
Just so you all know, I have nothing against discretes and tubes. They all have their place - discretes for massive conversion of energy into motion and tubes for prettying up some of the less than stellar sounds. I personally don't need a PA system nor do I care to have my sounds "enhanced" for my listening pleasure.
I have merely taken exception to DrG's assertion that chip amps are toys when clearly, they are employed in many professional reference systems. To start quoting the stratospheric brands in response is largely an evasion tactic since there are very few working environments that can drop the money for Krell or ATC. Bryston is an exception, since they are also a well-respected reference. I will spare you all more posts in this thread as I believe my own point has been made. J.
Mind your toes, I am walking!
Good morning DrG,
I am sorry to say that the very first post of this thread by you was not exactly technical. You kicked started in the wrong direction or right direction along to the thread title. If I have misunderstood your intention of your first post please kindly accept my apologies. I will be very interested to read any technical debate in this thread.
Best Regards,
Chris
DrG said:
Good morning DrG,
I am sorry to say that the very first post of this thread by you was not exactly technical. You kicked started in the wrong direction or right direction along to the thread title. If I have misunderstood your intention of your first post please kindly accept my apologies. I will be very interested to read any technical debate in this thread.
Best Regards,
Chris
Re: Re: Feeling left out...
100% agreement. And I'll be a nice guy and not give my personal opinion on why people are satisfied with chip amps. Audio as a hobby is just as much sociological as it is technical- maybe even more so- and we don't always appreciate that fact.
We did make it back in one piece, but I think that anyone on that plane who hasn't had kids yet will probably not do so after several hours exposed to Red Chief.
Steve Eddy said:
100% agreement. And I'll be a nice guy and not give my personal opinion on why people are satisfied with chip amps. Audio as a hobby is just as much sociological as it is technical- maybe even more so- and we don't always appreciate that fact.
We did make it back in one piece, but I think that anyone on that plane who hasn't had kids yet will probably not do so after several hours exposed to Red Chief.
Hi,
My comments about some kit being "unforgiving"
When I said "unforgiving", I meant in terms of technical problems: trafic noise, equipment noise and static pops -that kind of thing.
Of course there's no system that can turn a bad performance into a good one. But there are systems that accentuate unwanted artifacts. Since I listen to music for pleasure at home, I do not want those. My system (using valves) is not wooly, does not mask anything, and to my ears is clearer than the best chip and discrete SS amps I've tried.
Cheers,
My comments about some kit being "unforgiving"
have been miscontrued by 2 people, so I must have left some ambiguity.
When I said "unforgiving", I meant in terms of technical problems: trafic noise, equipment noise and static pops -that kind of thing.
Of course there's no system that can turn a bad performance into a good one. But there are systems that accentuate unwanted artifacts. Since I listen to music for pleasure at home, I do not want those. My system (using valves) is not wooly, does not mask anything, and to my ears is clearer than the best chip and discrete SS amps I've tried.
Cheers,
One reason would have to be the look on the owner's face when they lifted the lid and tried to see where all their hard spent money had been used. I'm sure it would be off to court before you could say "ripped-off big-time".DrG said:
Now, if only Nelson Pass would make a gainclone....
Circlotron said:
Didn't see that happening with 47 Labs, at least the court bit as there'd be no grounds.
Re: Re: Re: Feeling left out...
Aw c'mon, be a sport. I'm curious as I have my own ideas on this subject as well.
SY said:
Aw c'mon, be a sport. I'm curious as I have my own ideas on this subject as well.
Hey, I'll just throw in my $0.02 in the mudfest.
Audio is a bit like photography (sociologically, culturally, technically): selective reproduction of natural events by technical and artistic means. Results can be esthetically pleasing though never completely "natural" (duh!) - they *can* not and they do not *have to* be natural to be pleasing.
In Photo as well you have equipment hounds and a lot of technical discussions while the best photographs sometimes come out of so-so equipment.
To the point of chip amps vs. discrete: I see it like high-tech SLR's (35 mm or digital) vs. Large Format ("LF": 4x5, 8x10...). The small format is more convenient, can give excellent results, and is most widely used, even professionnally. But 35 mm DIY potential is very limited - swap filters, lenses, flashes, maybe build a macro adapter - the rest is miniature mechanics and electronics with no chance of DIY.
Now LF is heavy, bulky, inconvenient, and marvelously simple. It is very DIY-friendly because the mechanic tolerances can be so much larger, and the simplicity makes you understand the technique of photography much better. Used right, LF can give fantastically superior results to small format. Does the difference matter? Depends on the purpose and the user. Often LF is not practical, so 35 mm is a good thing to have. With high end and expensive equipment pushed to its limits, and good technique, 35 mm results can be close to LF for practical purposes - but at that point LF equipment would have been cheaper, and excellent results easier to get.
Now substitute, say, Discrete Class A with LF, and Chip Amps with 35 mm and you see my point. I often think of the analogy when I struggle with op amp multifaceted problems, say, decoupling, PSU, layout etc. - I start to suspect that to get fantastic results out of op amps can turn harder to earn than with the bulkier, seemingly comlicated but actually much simpler discrete designs - which also teach you how the whole amplification process actually works.
So, for quick reliable results, chip amps are fine and I use them. But I still want to learn the black art of discrete because it's ultimately more accessible to DIY, more instructive, and I believe it has the potential for better results.
Audio is a bit like photography (sociologically, culturally, technically): selective reproduction of natural events by technical and artistic means. Results can be esthetically pleasing though never completely "natural" (duh!) - they *can* not and they do not *have to* be natural to be pleasing.
In Photo as well you have equipment hounds and a lot of technical discussions while the best photographs sometimes come out of so-so equipment.
To the point of chip amps vs. discrete: I see it like high-tech SLR's (35 mm or digital) vs. Large Format ("LF": 4x5, 8x10...). The small format is more convenient, can give excellent results, and is most widely used, even professionnally. But 35 mm DIY potential is very limited - swap filters, lenses, flashes, maybe build a macro adapter - the rest is miniature mechanics and electronics with no chance of DIY.
Now LF is heavy, bulky, inconvenient, and marvelously simple. It is very DIY-friendly because the mechanic tolerances can be so much larger, and the simplicity makes you understand the technique of photography much better. Used right, LF can give fantastically superior results to small format. Does the difference matter? Depends on the purpose and the user. Often LF is not practical, so 35 mm is a good thing to have. With high end and expensive equipment pushed to its limits, and good technique, 35 mm results can be close to LF for practical purposes - but at that point LF equipment would have been cheaper, and excellent results easier to get.
Now substitute, say, Discrete Class A with LF, and Chip Amps with 35 mm and you see my point. I often think of the analogy when I struggle with op amp multifaceted problems, say, decoupling, PSU, layout etc. - I start to suspect that to get fantastic results out of op amps can turn harder to earn than with the bulkier, seemingly comlicated but actually much simpler discrete designs - which also teach you how the whole amplification process actually works.
So, for quick reliable results, chip amps are fine and I use them. But I still want to learn the black art of discrete because it's ultimately more accessible to DIY, more instructive, and I believe it has the potential for better results.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Feeling left out...
One promise that the other mods extracted from me was not to throw the first pie 😉 I'd like to hear your hypotheses and I'll be happy to throw the second pie.
Brett said:
One promise that the other mods extracted from me was not to throw the first pie 😉 I'd like to hear your hypotheses and I'll be happy to throw the second pie.
DrG said:
What makes a Krell a Krell? IMO, it's a cool case and a big price tag. Sure they sound phenominal, but are they worth the $$$ they charge? Doubtful. They are good because people like them. Please note that I never said they were better, but that people like them. How in this world can 47labs charge what it does for their GainCard amps? Hype and marketing. Are they better than the amps we build for 1/75th the price? Arguably not. But because they have a neat web site and they charge many $1000 for their amps, people decide that they I]MUST[/I] be better.
I also don't flock to whatever forum you frequent bashing the design you have picked as your favorite, although I have my opinion.
Some "audiophiles" are very content buying a $25k passive preamp with big knobs and a polished case. But open it up, and it's the same components us tightwads buy at 1/1000th the price. Is it worth $25k? It is only to those who pay $25k for it. 🙂
Re: Discrete shun is the better part of valour. Heh!
No, I wasn't meaning your post. I was ultimately meaning DrG's original post. I just liked your tongue-in-cheek "two monolithic chips on my shoulder" remark and thought I'd use it to preface my two cents on the issue.
Nothing I said between "Heheh" and "Vive la difference!" was intended to be tongue-in-cheek or even humorous. I found DrG's post to be elitist, absolutist, intolerant, and just downright insulting.
se
purplepeople said:
No, I wasn't meaning your post. I was ultimately meaning DrG's original post. I just liked your tongue-in-cheek "two monolithic chips on my shoulder" remark and thought I'd use it to preface my two cents on the issue.
Nothing I said between "Heheh" and "Vive la difference!" was intended to be tongue-in-cheek or even humorous. I found DrG's post to be elitist, absolutist, intolerant, and just downright insulting.
se
thank you Mantram, MBK and Circlotron
I feel vindicated!
I agree that Krells etc are overpriced... but then a lot of the fun of diy-fi lies in trying to copy, emulate or arrogantly and defiantly BETTER these expensive behemoths, does it not? What better sense of achievement and satisfaction could there be than to listen to your own kit/creation/system knock the socks off someone's expensive bought amp? This is indeed possible.
But respectfully, not with a gainclone... I reiterate: I've built LM3875 and TDA7294 amps (before they came to be known as gainclones). They were well-constructed I think, although I did not venture to the extremes of buffering, P2P, reg PSU. And they have a definite ceiling in the performance that can be extracted from them. This is unavoidable and perfectly acceptable within the context of their intended applications. But high-end was never part of that design brief, let's face it.
47 Labs is an exception: they conceived a brilliant little plan to make megaprofit when they designed the Gaincard. If I had bought one for $1200 only to find a $2 chip at the heart I think I'd feel pretty duped and mighty angry. Buy a silk purse, open the wrapper and find a sow's ear...
To some extent the same can be said of a Krell: but at least it weighs a ton, has huge trannies, colossal reservoir caps, extra-thick PCB foil and bulletproof casework. Somewhat easier to justify the cost when it looks like Darth Vader's briefcase, I think. Same goes for Mark Levinson, Jeff Rowland etc. The expense is more tangible and you're unlikely to feel like a total tit after opening it up. If you have the money to buy one, that is.
Which leaves us mortals with the fun factor: fun to build and listen to one's own construction effort. All the more so if you can take on your buddie's Musical Fidelity and run circles around it at 1/10th the price. 😎 But you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear... you need silk.
I feel vindicated!
I agree that Krells etc are overpriced... but then a lot of the fun of diy-fi lies in trying to copy, emulate or arrogantly and defiantly BETTER these expensive behemoths, does it not? What better sense of achievement and satisfaction could there be than to listen to your own kit/creation/system knock the socks off someone's expensive bought amp? This is indeed possible.
But respectfully, not with a gainclone... I reiterate: I've built LM3875 and TDA7294 amps (before they came to be known as gainclones). They were well-constructed I think, although I did not venture to the extremes of buffering, P2P, reg PSU. And they have a definite ceiling in the performance that can be extracted from them. This is unavoidable and perfectly acceptable within the context of their intended applications. But high-end was never part of that design brief, let's face it.
47 Labs is an exception: they conceived a brilliant little plan to make megaprofit when they designed the Gaincard. If I had bought one for $1200 only to find a $2 chip at the heart I think I'd feel pretty duped and mighty angry. Buy a silk purse, open the wrapper and find a sow's ear...
To some extent the same can be said of a Krell: but at least it weighs a ton, has huge trannies, colossal reservoir caps, extra-thick PCB foil and bulletproof casework. Somewhat easier to justify the cost when it looks like Darth Vader's briefcase, I think. Same goes for Mark Levinson, Jeff Rowland etc. The expense is more tangible and you're unlikely to feel like a total tit after opening it up. If you have the money to buy one, that is.
Which leaves us mortals with the fun factor: fun to build and listen to one's own construction effort. All the more so if you can take on your buddie's Musical Fidelity and run circles around it at 1/10th the price. 😎 But you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear... you need silk.
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