Breakers aren't supposed to trip as soon as the current exceeds the rating. THHN wire can conduct significantly larger currents for limited time periods. The breaker is supposed to protect the wire from damage. 25 amps through 14 gauge THHN for a brief period will do no damage. 20 amps for a couple minutes will do no damage. The breaker is supposed to allow this current to pass.
In my house, the washer, dryer, and sump pump are all connected to the same 20 amp circuit. Total current draw for all three is over 30 amps. The breaker has never tripped. And my air compressor in the shop draws 150 amps on initial start up. It's on a 20 amp breaker and it does trip sometimes (usually when it's cold in the shop) but not every time. But it's supposed to, for protection of the wire.
I’ll tell you one group thats getting more stupid......tourists!
I live in a major tourist area (Apalachicola /Cape San Blas Fl) and every year the tourists get dumber and dumber.......we’re talking straight up left their brain at home (if they ever had one to start) there really ought to be a open hunting season on ‘em to cull the herd a little! 😀
I live in a major tourist area (Apalachicola /Cape San Blas Fl) and every year the tourists get dumber and dumber.......we’re talking straight up left their brain at home (if they ever had one to start) there really ought to be a open hunting season on ‘em to cull the herd a little! 😀
My buddy got a shock adjusting the timing on his 70s era Cadillac. The shock went through his zipper. He was leaning way over the engine bay.
He went to bed for the rest of the day. That's the same thing I did when I got hit by lightning. I didn't feel very good after that.
"P" type fuses let go MUCH faster than FPE or just about any other breaker besides magnetic. FPE are known to be prone to over current. In testing, I read that a typical stab-lok 15A breaker will pass close to 30A for over 1 minute before it trips. I'm not talking about typical inrush, and your situation with 30A draw on a 20A breaker tells me you might not actually drawing 30A, at least that was the case with my calculations at my dads. 2300W through a 1800W breaker? Except the voltage was only 105V after the long wire run. No quality breaker will pass short circuit current for 2 seconds, just FPE garbage 😛
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When I lived on the Borough High St, the A3 that goes over London bridge, I lived in a council studio flat, and they are notorious for having hot pipes running under floors and always being too hot in summer.
I used to get up at night for a pee, but because of nature's changes to 'the chap', could not rely on aiming straight into the toilet bowl. So, I would walk through to the kitchen where there was a stainless steel sink, it having a greater access area, and on approach get a static belt to it, sometimes a 1/4" long.
When I first moved to this house I was wiring up a filtered outlet for the studio rig, and doing it live so that I could listen to music. Distracted, I accidentally shorted the mains through a screwdriver, about 3/8" across the blade, and the resulting bang blew an 3/16" off the end, but the fuse didn't blow.
I used to get up at night for a pee, but because of nature's changes to 'the chap', could not rely on aiming straight into the toilet bowl. So, I would walk through to the kitchen where there was a stainless steel sink, it having a greater access area, and on approach get a static belt to it, sometimes a 1/4" long.
When I first moved to this house I was wiring up a filtered outlet for the studio rig, and doing it live so that I could listen to music. Distracted, I accidentally shorted the mains through a screwdriver, about 3/8" across the blade, and the resulting bang blew an 3/16" off the end, but the fuse didn't blow.
So working in Florida is one of the few places in the country where it takes an act of congress to get the power turned on during a construction project. Most places if your switch gear is in and inspected you are good to go. Many places in Florida you need the whole project inspected before the power company will energize. The last complex electrical job we did down there was a magic smoke party about a week before we were to turn over the project.
I have nothing against people from Florida, it's just what happens when the going rate of pay in construction is 25% of more reasonable areas and there is no real training available.
This is by design. The breaker is designed to protect the wire without nuisance tripping. 30 amps for a couple minutes at maximum operating temperature will not damage 14 gauge THHN wire.
The breaker is not designed to protect your appliances. It is not designed to protect your outlets and in wall switches. It is not designed to protect your extension chord. It is designed to protect the wire inside the conduit.
A properly designed electrical system will last for many, many decades with only periodic changing out of switches and outlets. My house is 60 years old and about a quarter of the wiring is still original, with no problems. If they had put in enough circuits in the first place then it would probably be 100% original.
The sump pump runs intermittently; usually for only a minute and then it shuts off for a while. 😉 Only when there is a severe downpour does it run on a high duty cycle, and I guarantee you that my washer and dryer won't be running.
Sump pump fail = flood in my basement. That would be a disaster. I had to run and buy one a few months ago after it had rained for days. The sump was almost full and I had to go to two stores to even find a single pump. I have to be driven now because I can't see well enough to drive any more. We got back in the nick of time. I disconnected all the downspouts as soon as the pump failed.
The same breaker that should pass a 100% overload for 30 seconds, should trip instantly when short circuited.
I have been puzzling why my appreciation of pop music has declined since the start of the 90s.
The obvious thing to consider is my age, (71), and ageing. (The "Things ain't what they used to be" factor.) But I was always aware of that possibility when younger, and worked all my life to develop in most ways and not become stuck in an era, or become a 'fuddy-duddy'.
I've just listened to "Sounds of the 70s", and it is evident that the songs had a particular musical zeitgeist, which may be rhythm, BPM, ability to play instruments, and ability to write lyrics of some universal relevance. Often portrayals or descriptive verses in the songs, which perhaps we can all identify with.
So I also often listen, and with some self coercion, to programmes of current pop, and wonder what the hell is going on when I hear; "I will leave the lights on", and "I'll be riding shotgun", and I find it hard to believe that Ed Sheeran is the richest pop star.
I tend to argue, and have done for a long time, that we had a renaissance from about '65 onwards, rich material in the 70s, and some good synth stuff with virtuoso singing in the 80s, but from the 90s on it seems to fade into mundaneness.
I tend to think that maybe the 'texting generation' has started to think in what I consider to be the patterns of the seemingly utter banality of much text traffic.
So what is happening here, and does anyone agree? Look at the depths of PF in both musical and poetic/political terms, and with such minimal equipment available to them at the time.
Now we have so much technological sophistication, that their work would be very much easier to achieve, but current creativity seems to have lessened.
The obvious thing to consider is my age, (71), and ageing. (The "Things ain't what they used to be" factor.) But I was always aware of that possibility when younger, and worked all my life to develop in most ways and not become stuck in an era, or become a 'fuddy-duddy'.
I've just listened to "Sounds of the 70s", and it is evident that the songs had a particular musical zeitgeist, which may be rhythm, BPM, ability to play instruments, and ability to write lyrics of some universal relevance. Often portrayals or descriptive verses in the songs, which perhaps we can all identify with.
So I also often listen, and with some self coercion, to programmes of current pop, and wonder what the hell is going on when I hear; "I will leave the lights on", and "I'll be riding shotgun", and I find it hard to believe that Ed Sheeran is the richest pop star.
I tend to argue, and have done for a long time, that we had a renaissance from about '65 onwards, rich material in the 70s, and some good synth stuff with virtuoso singing in the 80s, but from the 90s on it seems to fade into mundaneness.
I tend to think that maybe the 'texting generation' has started to think in what I consider to be the patterns of the seemingly utter banality of much text traffic.
So what is happening here, and does anyone agree? Look at the depths of PF in both musical and poetic/political terms, and with such minimal equipment available to them at the time.
Now we have so much technological sophistication, that their work would be very much easier to achieve, but current creativity seems to have lessened.
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@Pharos "I have been puzzling why my appreciation of pop music has declined since the start of the 90s"
So I'm not the only one! I think "All my stuff is so old..." What I find amazing is how nice a recording from 1970 can be and I've set out to find some of these gems within my collection.
Relevant to being stupid, I guess in the last 30 years you just dont have to work as hard to put out something that'll successfully attract people to you. You dont have to be the consummate musicians with 10k hours of playing experience the Beatles were - to be able to attract hoards of screaming women with your music.
Perhaps an unsubstantiated claim, but I believe they had a lot of playing experience before they became famous. And that's no guarantee; I believe Green Day made a lot more money than The Ramones, even though the latter probably worked harder and played longer - to end up not being as "rich & famous".
So I'm not the only one! I think "All my stuff is so old..." What I find amazing is how nice a recording from 1970 can be and I've set out to find some of these gems within my collection.
Relevant to being stupid, I guess in the last 30 years you just dont have to work as hard to put out something that'll successfully attract people to you. You dont have to be the consummate musicians with 10k hours of playing experience the Beatles were - to be able to attract hoards of screaming women with your music.
Perhaps an unsubstantiated claim, but I believe they had a lot of playing experience before they became famous. And that's no guarantee; I believe Green Day made a lot more money than The Ramones, even though the latter probably worked harder and played longer - to end up not being as "rich & famous".
I particularly notice both the superior enunciation and expression of singers from those early years, but also that the mic. technique is appropriate to allowing that expression.
Much modern singing is very close mic'ed, and with little top but a lot of proximity lower mid and upper bass, and there is also a tendency for many to copy Maria Carey and use a great deal of technical athleticism, (mellifluous callisthenics as described in Hi-Fi News). This actually serves to disallow emotional expression, and masks the inner self of the singer.
No, working hard seems often unnecessary with click dots on a computer screen.
The first completely self created album was I believe John Mayall's "The Blues Alone", in which he played all the instruments on a multi-track recorder. Now it is a standard practice to do so using virtual instruments and MIDI.
It is well know that George Harrison practised until his fingers bled.
Much modern singing is very close mic'ed, and with little top but a lot of proximity lower mid and upper bass, and there is also a tendency for many to copy Maria Carey and use a great deal of technical athleticism, (mellifluous callisthenics as described in Hi-Fi News). This actually serves to disallow emotional expression, and masks the inner self of the singer.
No, working hard seems often unnecessary with click dots on a computer screen.
The first completely self created album was I believe John Mayall's "The Blues Alone", in which he played all the instruments on a multi-track recorder. Now it is a standard practice to do so using virtual instruments and MIDI.
It is well know that George Harrison practised until his fingers bled.
So… just yesterday, (and somewhat gratefully in contravention to your observation), I was the “master judge” at our local 6th, 7th and 8th grade pre-high-school Science Fair. Been doing this for now 11 years, strong.
133 projects. 120 single kid exhibits, 13 paired-up projects.
50% of the projects were rubber-duck stuff. But hey, they're grade-school kids. Good even that they showed up! Some were (obviously) from such urban-poverty backgrounds that it was just painful (as in 'pathos') to try to qualitatively interview them. Like talking to natives fresh out of Chad or something. BUT … again, to their credit, they entered an exhibit!
At the other end of the scale, were projects (clearly parent-helped) that were nothing short of amazing. Multiple microcontroller (arduino mostly, but some others) enabled apparatuses. Really awesome data collection. Some surprisingly insightful. Interviewing the “top-tier” (and the “bottom tier” too, since that's my self-assigned assignment!), I was struck by how marvelously competent the top-shelf kids were. At least half had NO APPARENT HELP at all, yet were doing things I personally would have found challenging in University … back when dinosaurs used to provide shade for the horses and buggies of my youth.
Remarkable.
Yes, some — perhaps as you observe, most — of our youth have no “plumb reckoning” abilities whatsoever. No ability to spell. No ability to write cohesive sentences. Almost no ability to do mat with any competence that'd pass the least challenging test.
Yet also too, there are kids that are AWESOME.
Absolutely top shelf.
I just wish of that most kids had the “resources” (mostly parental!!!) to be pulled, pushed, kicked, cajoled … laughing and screaming … so that they also could “rise to their talent”.
And yah… i'm almost in shock regarding the lack-of-math-and-estimation skills coming out of our schools these days.
They are schools, right?
HOW THE HELL IS IT that … “we” got thru schools that … didn't have computers, didn't have teaching assistants, didn't have new books, didn't have whiteboard, didn't have time-outs, and safe-spaces, and more counselors than teachers, … how is it that we — almost to the last kid — learned about pounds, ounces, inches, centimeter, meters, yards, miles, kilograms, grams, everything. We learned about dozens, and gross = dozen-dozen. We learned all kinds of things that are now considered verboten to even mention in public.
But why?
The most important question that we need to hold out is … what has replaced what we learned, and why is it (whatever 'it' is) so important that it displaced all the useful stuff?
Anyway
⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅
The big selling artists of today are the ones who put raw emotion into their work. This seems to act as an antidote to today's apparently harsh and uncaring society.
Forget sex appeal, it's now all about emotional appeal. Look at Lewis Capaldi who is 'Divinely Uninspired To A Hellish Extent', but is raking in the cash!
P.S. To Pharos, also listened to Johnnie Walker today - Magnum is more my cup of tea!
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Modern music has one thing going for it, the recording quality (on average) seems to be getting much better in the last few years.
There’s also so many more ways to explore new music for little money, I pay $20 a month for tidal hi fi version and would probably pay twice that if I had to. Granted you have to slough through a lot of junk but I usually end up adding about 10 new songs to my playlist on every surf session.
There’s a lot of fusion music happening now that’s quite interesting, many older artists attempt to make more modern adaptations of their craft.....all kinds of cool stuff going on in music I’d say. Just gotta dig a little!
There’s also so many more ways to explore new music for little money, I pay $20 a month for tidal hi fi version and would probably pay twice that if I had to. Granted you have to slough through a lot of junk but I usually end up adding about 10 new songs to my playlist on every surf session.
There’s a lot of fusion music happening now that’s quite interesting, many older artists attempt to make more modern adaptations of their craft.....all kinds of cool stuff going on in music I’d say. Just gotta dig a little!
I have not read most of the thread but what I read, it struck me that no one "owns" those kids . Did they just drop from the space and populated the earth or are they product of our loins ? The problem are not kids I'm afraid but their parents or "US" more or less.
What I like about modern world is that "youtube" has solution to most of the problems 🙂
What I like about modern world is that "youtube" has solution to most of the problems 🙂
Can’t beat em no more......Can’t even cuss em out!
I own one that I disowned from age 13-26, I suppose you could call it the ‘dumbarse 13’
He’s 28 now and finally understands where my displeasure sourced from.
I own one that I disowned from age 13-26, I suppose you could call it the ‘dumbarse 13’
He’s 28 now and finally understands where my displeasure sourced from.
I was witness to the days when teachers strode around in their academic gowns and talked AT their pupils, who didn't have the temerity to interrupt and ask questions. They had to learn exactly what they were told to learn, and woe betide any with the power of individual thought!
Teaching today has become much more interactive. Pupils are encouraged to learn by doing and are guided by their teachers to discover information rather than be continually force fed it.
Good teachers show interest in, and empathy with, their pupils and provide the necessary motivation. It has always been thus, but is now aided via modern methodology and technology.
However, bright pupils will always succeed as they will rise above any system.
Usually at the age 13-26 kids disown parents 😀
So, I went with my buddies and their families up north to a lake house for a long weekend this summer. There were a forest, lake, river, boats, kayaks and bicycles. We were drinking , playing cards and "singing" along youtube songs of our stupid youth while 10+ kids were playing with their "pads" and phones . On Monday when were packing up and fighting a hangover, we realized we didn't take advantage of the forest, river, boats, kayaks and bicycles so we loaded all kids in the boats and gave them 10 min ride while the cars were warming up .The trip was wildly successful and we reserved the lake house for a next long weekend....
However, bright pupils will always succeed as they will rise above any system.[/QUOTE]
Not really. In my experience bright ones need a lot more nurturing and care and many will end up in the ditch or waste their potential. Some will indeed rise above the system.
Not really. In my experience bright ones need a lot more nurturing and care and many will end up in the ditch or waste their potential. Some will indeed rise above the system.