I was considering a new sliding compound miter saw to make building odd faceted boxes easier and crosscutting long boards on the table saw is not fun. So I looked at everyone I could find. Every one had a major design flaw or quality issue. All had quite a lot of flex in them. I know these are designed for building trim, but I have my doubts on how accurate they are for that!
Hitachi: Nify side slides, but so loose, they rattled in them.
Kobalt: Miter stop had several degrees of play. Cheap plastic.
DeWalt: Slop in guides. Saw does drop deeper so it has slightly wider crosscut than most.
Rigid: Much deeper than the rest. Gives up a lot of cross cut due to extra deep fence.
Skill, Ryobi were low end junk.
Have not found a Milwalkee, Bosch or Makita yet. I was told the Kobalt may be a Bosch.
Hitachi: Nify side slides, but so loose, they rattled in them.
Kobalt: Miter stop had several degrees of play. Cheap plastic.
DeWalt: Slop in guides. Saw does drop deeper so it has slightly wider crosscut than most.
Rigid: Much deeper than the rest. Gives up a lot of cross cut due to extra deep fence.
Skill, Ryobi were low end junk.
Have not found a Milwalkee, Bosch or Makita yet. I was told the Kobalt may be a Bosch.
Went to several more stores. In another Lowes, the Kobalt miter lock was nice and tight. So, is my local one abused, worn, or a quality issue? Looking at all of them, I think I am going to buy it anyway.
Miter Saw Kapex KS 120 Sliding Compound Miter Saw 561287 - Festool Power Tools
If you don't mind spending the cash festool stuff is nice.
I can't spend the money an do fine with a dewalt.
Miter Saw Kapex KS 120 Sliding Compound Miter Saw 561287 - Festool Power Tools
Good blades are a must. As well as shop made wood zero clearance fence and deck
If you don't mind spending the cash festool stuff is nice.
I can't spend the money an do fine with a dewalt.
Miter Saw Kapex KS 120 Sliding Compound Miter Saw 561287 - Festool Power Tools
Good blades are a must. As well as shop made wood zero clearance fence and deck
IMO, boxes are cabinet work and there's no substitute for a cabinet saw, or one of the European high end saws. For odd angles you might need to build a sliding jig of some sort, but the reward will be perfect cuts. Mitre saws and radial arm saws are great for trim and carpentry, but not precision cabinet work.
I could not agree more. I hate chop saws, but they are the tool for carpentry and trimming in the field.
Did you check out the Bosch "Glide" miter saw? I haven't tried it myself, but it certainly looks promising.
I've gone through a few, and always seem to find an issue.
For door, window and crown moulding, I always find the saws dependent on side forces at the handle, I have to be very careful to only push in line with the blade.
Another thing I've found, is the wood tends to relax a small amount at the cut. When I do a very clean cut, I'll find the surface is not perfectly planar, sometimes it'll cup or warp. Eventually I learned to do a first cut abut 1/4 inch from the mark, then 1/16th, and then the final cut. It helps relieve the stresses already in the wood. For years, I thought all the problems I had making tights joints was due to the miter saw..who knew.
For my wooden clock gear work (which requires joints tight to a few thousandths along it's seam) , I've gone with a slide on my table saw. I made an adjustable one, and a few fixed ones, still I do at least a double cut to stress relieve the edge of the wood. I've not found any correlation between wood species and stress relief either, I use well aged dried wood that has been in my 50% RH/65 F for over a year, so gave up on that as a solution.
I do find that the alignment bar on the bottom of the slide needs a really good tight fit. I'll go with the incra stuff for my next slide.
jn
For door, window and crown moulding, I always find the saws dependent on side forces at the handle, I have to be very careful to only push in line with the blade.
Another thing I've found, is the wood tends to relax a small amount at the cut. When I do a very clean cut, I'll find the surface is not perfectly planar, sometimes it'll cup or warp. Eventually I learned to do a first cut abut 1/4 inch from the mark, then 1/16th, and then the final cut. It helps relieve the stresses already in the wood. For years, I thought all the problems I had making tights joints was due to the miter saw..who knew.
For my wooden clock gear work (which requires joints tight to a few thousandths along it's seam) , I've gone with a slide on my table saw. I made an adjustable one, and a few fixed ones, still I do at least a double cut to stress relieve the edge of the wood. I've not found any correlation between wood species and stress relief either, I use well aged dried wood that has been in my 50% RH/65 F for over a year, so gave up on that as a solution.
I do find that the alignment bar on the bottom of the slide needs a really good tight fit. I'll go with the incra stuff for my next slide.
jn
That's really interesting. Thanks for that.
Do you think the tip of easing one's way to the line to relieve tension in the wood would also apply to rip cuts as well?
Absolutely. Certainly been there before. I've taken a totally straight and flat 1 by 6 pine or maple, started ripping it to find it opens more at the cut, or pulls in binding the blade, or both pieces warp in opposite directions.
If I need a very straight piece, like a 1 second pendulum (roughly a meter long, I'll rip it from both sides alternately. That is because the edge which was totally straight may warp during the first rip. I have to fixture it so that I can clamp the length on a slide, flip it several times.
Be careful at first cut, as if you cut too much away and it warps, you may not have enough straight wood to get the final piece dimension.
And once I've got the final piece and it's straight enough, I sand it up to 400 grit and seal it immediately to prevent moisture intrusion which can warp the final piece.
jn
Those are some great tips. Experience can truly be a great teacher. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate that.
Well, I did entry a contest to win a Festool. $1300 is a bit steep for me. Bosch glide is $800 and I have not found one to look at. Great idea if it works. Kobalt is $300 and the Dewalt is $600 or there abouts. Not doing price competition here, just ballparks. I don;t understand why Hitachi has so much play in the linear bearings where the others do not. Shame on them.
I have a mid-size table saw. Unless I win the lottery, I don't have room, power, or budget for a wonderful European cabinet sliding table saw. We only have single phase power here, so three phase is not an option. So, I use a crosscut tray and it is fine for pieces not too big. For some ideas I have, to be able to do repeatable compound miters would be a help.
Yes, chop saws are for carpentry, but the issues I see would not even do for that! I find a chop saw very convenient to have as my backup to the table saw, plus all the house trim carpentry jobs I do. I sold my radial arm saw as every time I cut a miter, I had to re-align it. It had too much flex anyway and was a bit scary doing compound miters. My old Delta 10" chop saw is very accurate, easy to use and convenient, but will only crosscut 5 inches. The non-slider 12's can do 8, so that is a plus. To be able to do 12 would really be handy.
Went to a second store and the Kobalt did not have as much slop. Abuse, wear, quality control? At $300, it seems to beat the $600 Dewalt. If I were tossing it around in a truck on a jobsite, that may be another story. The Rigid seemed nice and tight, but the way they did their table and fence takes up more room than I have. They give up an inch of crosscut for some reason.
I guess it is a matter of we put up with it. They still make the same bad design in cheap planers (old Delta where the head rocks) and people keep buying them. I understand cheap parts or cheap quality as we are a price driven society, but even in a cheap product, there is no excuse for bad design. Good design is usually cheaper.
Yes blades matter. I seem to have wound up with mostly Freud, not that they are the best or not, but I guess I know them as pretty good.
Second thanks on jne's tips. I wind up doing picture frames for my wife's cross-stitch. That should help. I have never been totally satisfied. Being completely self taught, there are tons of tricks I do not yet know.
I have a mid-size table saw. Unless I win the lottery, I don't have room, power, or budget for a wonderful European cabinet sliding table saw. We only have single phase power here, so three phase is not an option. So, I use a crosscut tray and it is fine for pieces not too big. For some ideas I have, to be able to do repeatable compound miters would be a help.
Yes, chop saws are for carpentry, but the issues I see would not even do for that! I find a chop saw very convenient to have as my backup to the table saw, plus all the house trim carpentry jobs I do. I sold my radial arm saw as every time I cut a miter, I had to re-align it. It had too much flex anyway and was a bit scary doing compound miters. My old Delta 10" chop saw is very accurate, easy to use and convenient, but will only crosscut 5 inches. The non-slider 12's can do 8, so that is a plus. To be able to do 12 would really be handy.
Went to a second store and the Kobalt did not have as much slop. Abuse, wear, quality control? At $300, it seems to beat the $600 Dewalt. If I were tossing it around in a truck on a jobsite, that may be another story. The Rigid seemed nice and tight, but the way they did their table and fence takes up more room than I have. They give up an inch of crosscut for some reason.
I guess it is a matter of we put up with it. They still make the same bad design in cheap planers (old Delta where the head rocks) and people keep buying them. I understand cheap parts or cheap quality as we are a price driven society, but even in a cheap product, there is no excuse for bad design. Good design is usually cheaper.
Yes blades matter. I seem to have wound up with mostly Freud, not that they are the best or not, but I guess I know them as pretty good.
Second thanks on jne's tips. I wind up doing picture frames for my wife's cross-stitch. That should help. I have never been totally satisfied. Being completely self taught, there are tons of tricks I do not yet know.
If I were you and have the room I'd buy a used Radial Arm Saw.
Set once and don't move it.
They can be picked up under $200.00.
Set once and don't move it.
They can be picked up under $200.00.
I've been pretty happy with by non-sliding 12" Bosch miter saw. I use it both for wood and aluminum using Freud blades.
~Tom
~Tom
Your welcome.
Small world, my wife also does cross stitch as well.
I'm looking to take 2 or 3 LED bulbs apart and make a really good ring light for her, the fluorescent ring around the mag lens just doesn't cut it lumen-wise. I have some berquist board blanks, so had to find a diy project for them..😀
jn
If you are serious you might try a Lion trimmer....
As a cabinetmaker for 30 years I have used a "Lion Trimmer" when flawless joints are required.
Check out this video (not me):
sweet cuts with miter trimmer - YouTube
These are used by picture framers... cut your miter with your pawn shop saw and then refine the last 100th of an inch for glass smooth joints.
Uncle Clyde
As a cabinetmaker for 30 years I have used a "Lion Trimmer" when flawless joints are required.
Check out this video (not me):
sweet cuts with miter trimmer - YouTube
These are used by picture framers... cut your miter with your pawn shop saw and then refine the last 100th of an inch for glass smooth joints.
Uncle Clyde
This one is very solid, a little pricey but still saving $200 over the Milwaukee
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW717-...d=1387128955&sr=1-5&keywords=dewalt+miter+saw
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW717-...d=1387128955&sr=1-5&keywords=dewalt+miter+saw
Yea. Used one many years ago. Paper thin slices. Of course, not much use for cutting a 12 inch board on a compound bevel in MDF.
Sold mine. Too much flex. Too inconstant. It could not crosscut as much as several of the miter saws. It could not cut a 4 x 4 either. The point of a miter saw is you can do miters without setting it up.
Non-sliding is a fall-back alternative. Most are only single bevel though. Many don't move the motor out of the way so I am not sure if they can cut a 4 x 4. Much less flex of course and no problem with the rear clearance.
I don't understand single bevel. Can any of the pros out there shed some light on this? Cost? Or is there some reason in use you don't need it. As my Delta does not have bevel at all, I don't understand.
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