You can also test this configuration:
http://archphile.org/lab/update_scripts/rpi-update
and read about it here:
Archphile - An Archlinux Based Audiophile Distribution for Raspberry Pi and Udoo Quad
If you decide to test what I suggest, please DO NOT UNDERCLOCK!
Underclocking in general is a very bad idea imho and can only make things worse.
http://archphile.org/lab/update_scripts/rpi-update
and read about it here:
Archphile - An Archlinux Based Audiophile Distribution for Raspberry Pi and Udoo Quad
If you decide to test what I suggest, please DO NOT UNDERCLOCK!
Underclocking in general is a very bad idea imho and can only make things worse.
i did underclocking and i am getting immediatelly less digitus, warmer, natural, analogue sound, deeper bass and 3d, maybe it is my projection, but it is like this ...
I am isolating CPU 0 to only handle with interrupts. CPU 1 is isolated for MPD and then I set MPD on CPU 1 and YMPD on CPU 2.
The ympd (as it will use either core 2 or 3 that we don't care about..) command can be ignored. It's just a way to show on archphile-optimize file how users should deal with all the running programs.
The ympd (as it will use either core 2 or 3 that we don't care about..) command can be ignored. It's just a way to show on archphile-optimize file how users should deal with all the running programs.
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So, i turned off the underclocking and i took only Yor configuration with
echo 1500000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_latency_ns
echo 1000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rt_period_us
echo 950000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rt_runtime_us
echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_autogroup_enabled
echo 10 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rr_timeslice_ms
echo 750000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_min_granularity_ns
echo 1000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_wakeup_granularity_ns
i have no time to check one by all those parameters, but the sound is indeed very, very good. It seems, that the minimal approach ist the best solution for the best sound quality.
i noticed that hdmi is on, i turned it off, but maybe standard for archphile should be off ?
Disable HDMI port on boot (save ~30 mA per Pi) * Issue #58 * geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-dramble * GitHub
echo 1500000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_latency_ns
echo 1000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rt_period_us
echo 950000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rt_runtime_us
echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_autogroup_enabled
echo 10 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rr_timeslice_ms
echo 750000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_min_granularity_ns
echo 1000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/sched_wakeup_granularity_ns
i have no time to check one by all those parameters, but the sound is indeed very, very good. It seems, that the minimal approach ist the best solution for the best sound quality.
i noticed that hdmi is on, i turned it off, but maybe standard for archphile should be off ?
Disable HDMI port on boot (save ~30 mA per Pi) * Issue #58 * geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-dramble * GitHub
This parameters are really really old. In fact don't like and don't suggest this kind of messing around with the OS. I just added this section years ago when "profiles" were popular in other audio distributions and people were asking for them.
However if you want to play around with all these echos you should do a research for the ideal values.
HDMI will be disabled in next image.
However if you want to play around with all these echos you should do a research for the ideal values.
HDMI will be disabled in next image.
Did you underclock with the CRAAP settings?
Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 as USB Audio Streamer (with recommended CRAAP config & TIDAL/MQA arrives)
I tried those settings from here
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/271811-moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-1423.html#post5359883
force_turbo=1
avoid_pwm_pll=1
arm_freq=333
over_voltage=-7
core_freq=166
h264_freq=166
isp_freq=166
v3d_freq=166
gpu_freq=166
sdram_freq=166
sdram_schmoo=0x021e882c
over_voltage_sdram_p=5
over_voltage_sdram_i=3
over_voltage_sdram_c=-13
maybe it was to slow, next i will try CRAAP settings
arm_freq=800
sdram_freq=400
core_freq=400
gpu_freq=300
over_voltage=-4
over_voltage_sdram=-4
and i will report.
It is so difficult to describe difference in sq for different settings. The main problem is, that i have a very good vinyl setup and compared to it any digital source is just horrible ...
Psychoacoustics is greeting
Especially if you do sighted listening, so that expectation bias dominates, and listen sequentially, relying on (very unreliable) auditory memory instead of doing A/B or ABX.
There is a solution... iZotope Vinyl.
Why is that? Please, enlighten us. I'm really curious to hear that explanation.
*****
BTW: My earlier feedback didn't mean to force you into rt-kernel business.
I very well understand maintaining such an OS means a hell lot of work. And usually additional trouble should be avoided. However. The RPI folks even offer that rt-kernel on git now. It's never been easier to integrate it!
I do know that the custom-kernel business alone can easily keep you busy for several days/month.
I also wanted to make clear earlier that the benchmarks I've taken shouldn't just be used as an excuse for you not to go for it.
****
@Sinski
System tuning is not just a wild collect&apply&spread exercise.
Situations change all the time. Some tweaks get obsolete over time. Some
even make things worse. You better know what you're doing.
I saw you posting your stuff all over the place lately. I think you're a bit off track with your bucket full of everything. The funny thing after all. You even realize this yourself now. My advise. Stop posting your stuff unless you know what you're doing or causing.
Enjoy.
No I didn't listen to Archphile. I've been just lurking around to see what's going on.
I'm running my own ArchLinux on my PIs though. I think Arch is the best base OS for our purpose.
I'm sure I'm pretty close with my base setup to Archphile.
Basically all OSes (Arch/Rasbian/TinyCore) are using the same kernel.That's key.
And then you need just a player app. That's pretty much it.
Everything else such as web server etc., is just clutter - from an audiophile perspective.
Raspbian is usually a bit behind Arch-Linux and even TinyCore when it comes to bleeding edge packages.
Arch is a rolling release - the maintainers don't have to wait for the next major release change to run major package updates.
Some Raspbian based audio OS maintainers get around that weakness by compiling packages themselves.
If you than use MPD or squeezelite as player IMO is a matter of taste.
Of course there are slight differences how this or that gets configured.
From what I read here Tuxx also introduced this or that tuning measure, stuff that I'm also talking about for quite some time.
They all (Moode/Rune/Volumio/pCP/DietPi) add this or that tweak. Meanwhile most of the stuff is pretty well outlined.
All this is no rocket science for those who know a bit (or a bit more ) about Linux.
I figured. The more you boil it all down to the basics the more similar they all get.
Basically the least cluttered most up2date system comes with the greatest potential.
Now we have half a dozen RPI audio OSes around. Great times for us as users.
Thx to those for providing these systems.
And yes.
Added transparency is one thing you'll experience with a good setup.
You might add characteristics such as a very contoured low end (quite difficult to achieve).
A deep and wide well layered space. More dynamics.
A better texture. As Sinski also says a more natural sound.
You'll also recognize lower "grain".
All this - depending on the system - at a higher or lower magnitude. Some don't experience anything. Some the full package.
If you like what you hear. Stay with it. Though, don't believe it couldn't get better.
- even if people trying to tell you it's good enough!I might give Archphile a try - just to see what's going on.
Enjoy.
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I am far from being a Linux expert but with some reading and help of friends I manage to get along with it.No I didn't. I'm running my own ArchLinux on my PIs though.
.....
If you like what you hear. Stay with it. But don't believe it couldn't get better.
I might give Archphile a try - just to see what's going on.
Enjoy.
Of course I don't believe it couldn't get better. I see/hear it as the OS evolves.
I think that you should try it. As I said imho there are great qualities to it. I don't know how much better your Archlinux setup might be but for us, non experts, Archphile is a great thing to have and use.
The explanation is pretty simple: I trust the code of Linux kernel and I believe that ondemand/interactive/performance governors do the job much better than me and you trying to limit the CPU capabilities by underclocking it.
I am really sick and tired of all this hi-end non-sense in computer audio lately. People undecklocking or using a slighlty different kernel configuration or..... and all of a sudden everything changes, the sound becomes analogue, god visits the earth or whatever..
I am sorry, but this is really far away from the mentality behind my project and I don't intend to keep discussing about snakeoil.
Last but not least, as it seems believing that all this non-sense is pure snakeoil, makes me think I am a minority here, so I 'll stop it now.
Regards,
Mike
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They are so many players for Raspberry Pi and what is worrying me, it is the fact, that they are more and more overloaded with different features and options and most discussions are about not working bluetooth or tidal, but not about improving the sound quality.
I just whant to play my music files in best possible quality and i think, that at the moment Archphile is the right choice for me. When i was using other players, than after the installation i was disabling unwanted services and options to make the os slim and fast. In Archphile all unnecessary stuff is already disabled, i just can intsall it, set my dac and library and play music. In the last 10 years i tried so many players, my biggest hope was SOA (Squeeze on Arch), but it dissappeared.
Coming back to underclocking options. Maybe when using underclocking with force_turbo=1 option we have the most stable data stream, pi is not jumping from one cpu frequncy to another causing different ps load.
I have no tools to measure jitter, just my ears, this just my hobby and diyaudio is not a place to justify my opinion, qualifications and ego.
I just whant to play my music files in best possible quality and i think, that at the moment Archphile is the right choice for me. When i was using other players, than after the installation i was disabling unwanted services and options to make the os slim and fast. In Archphile all unnecessary stuff is already disabled, i just can intsall it, set my dac and library and play music. In the last 10 years i tried so many players, my biggest hope was SOA (Squeeze on Arch), but it dissappeared.
Coming back to underclocking options. Maybe when using underclocking with force_turbo=1 option we have the most stable data stream, pi is not jumping from one cpu frequncy to another causing different ps load.
I have no tools to measure jitter, just my ears
, this just my hobby and diyaudio is not a place to justify my opinion, qualifications and ego. Mybe because once you get bit perfect reproduction with no dropouts, there is nothing to improve (unless you have a DAC that is extremely sensitive to timing and noise - typically only really old DACs, of poorly designed "audiophile" DACs).
Coming back to underclocking options. Maybe when using underclocking with force_turbo=1 option we have the most stable data stream, pi is not jumping from one cpu frequncy to another causing different ps load.
I have no tools to measure jitter, just my ears
So you have no real way to verify that your data stream is somehow "unstable".
The data stream within the OS is timed by many aspects and is always processed in batches.
The data stream going out to the soundcard (PCI(e), usb) is timed by hardware clock of the soundcard (or USB controller for usb adaptive). Even this stream flows in batches which are cached in buffer of the soundcard first. Only from this internal buffer are samples sent to the DAC at the pace of the audio clock - that is where jitter matters.
Unstable data stream throughout the whole chain before the final link buffer-> DAC can only result in buffer underflow - a very audible glitch.
The only possible impact on SQ is various character of noise coming along the lines from the PC. A decent gear should be immune to this noise to some extent. More importantly, there is hardly any way to manipulate this noise in software in a consistent manner in a multiprocess OS.
But this has been told thousand times here...
I fear many times the reported audible change after "tweaking" an already bit-perfect software chain is in fact an effect of a ground loop in improperly connected sound chain (e.g. in Adding an Amp into Thin-Client PC )
The data stream going out to the soundcard (PCI(e), usb) is timed by hardware clock of the soundcard (or USB controller for usb adaptive). Even this stream flows in batches which are cached in buffer of the soundcard first. Only from this internal buffer are samples sent to the DAC at the pace of the audio clock - that is where jitter matters.
Unstable data stream throughout the whole chain before the final link buffer-> DAC can only result in buffer underflow - a very audible glitch.
The only possible impact on SQ is various character of noise coming along the lines from the PC. A decent gear should be immune to this noise to some extent. More importantly, there is hardly any way to manipulate this noise in software in a consistent manner in a multiprocess OS.
But this has been told thousand times here...
I fear many times the reported audible change after "tweaking" an already bit-perfect software chain is in fact an effect of a ground loop in improperly connected sound chain (e.g. in Adding an Amp into Thin-Client PC )
Bit perfect means, that exactly the same data was delivered in lets say 1 second, but says nothing about regurality of the data stream. I don't want to follow this flame war. For some people all cables sound the same, bit perfect sound the same, all dacs sound the same. I stop this now.
I think that tuxx will be happy, when we can write something constructive about our experience with Archphile. Everybody can try and report.
I think that tuxx will be happy, when we can write something constructive about our experience with Archphile. Everybody can try and report.