P.S.... for Dan:
They didn't just happen to throw in a schematic for the eval board by any chance (free of NDAs, etc.)????????
Bill
They didn't just happen to throw in a schematic for the eval board by any chance (free of NDAs, etc.)????????
Bill
Behringer
Just received a DEQ2496. I needed something to give me AES/EBU signals from an analog source. This thing blew me away. It measures great (I have 3 Audio Precisions in my lab) and sounded great. It has every feature I could think of in an EQ including Real Time Analyzer, feedback killer, room equalizer, etc. Even delay lines that can be compensated for different air temperatures.
It uses two SHARC processors and has AKM A/D and D/A converters for the main signals. In fact the converters are amongst the best available and better than used on consumer equipment. It runs at 96KHz on the input and can take SPDIF, AES/EBU or analog input and output all the same. Optical in and out too. A great piece of gear for $299.00.
The display is great too and there are piles of non-volatile presets. The limiters/expanders tested out great too. If you need an equalizer that does damn near everything, I recommend this unit highly.
I imagine the DCX2496 three way crossover with 3 analog inputs and 6 analog outputs to be just as good. I'd recommend you look up the specs on it before going off to build something. I really doubt you will do a lot better until you get to several times the price.
Dan
Just received a DEQ2496. I needed something to give me AES/EBU signals from an analog source. This thing blew me away. It measures great (I have 3 Audio Precisions in my lab) and sounded great. It has every feature I could think of in an EQ including Real Time Analyzer, feedback killer, room equalizer, etc. Even delay lines that can be compensated for different air temperatures.
It uses two SHARC processors and has AKM A/D and D/A converters for the main signals. In fact the converters are amongst the best available and better than used on consumer equipment. It runs at 96KHz on the input and can take SPDIF, AES/EBU or analog input and output all the same. Optical in and out too. A great piece of gear for $299.00.
The display is great too and there are piles of non-volatile presets. The limiters/expanders tested out great too. If you need an equalizer that does damn near everything, I recommend this unit highly.
I imagine the DCX2496 three way crossover with 3 analog inputs and 6 analog outputs to be just as good. I'd recommend you look up the specs on it before going off to build something. I really doubt you will do a lot better until you get to several times the price.
Dan
Re: 48KHz sample rate
, and any possible benefits would probably be outweighed by problems introduced by having the DACs a large physical distance from the DSP.
I would try to make the product affordable, otherwise you lose most of your potential market and start fighting for attention in the "audiophile" market. Hint: avoid the audiophile market at all costs: some of those people can hear differences where there are none and vice versa; and most of your budget will go down the drain on marketing and selling the product on appearance.
On my wish-list would be a DSP solution for 2 channels in, 6 or maybe even 7 channels out. The box would have some sort of minimal UI so a PC is not required, however it would also have connectivity to a PC for setting up initially, major adjustments and reprogramming....
I think there's a limit to how much the actual crossover slopes can benefit sound quality, and "linear-phase" crossovers are practically just a red herring - a good algorithm should handle that anyway. I would be much more interested in being able to calibrate my speakers with microphones, specifically to eliminate ringing effects in the time domain.
CM
I doubt the lower quality sound would be due to THD, but instead due to aliasing. For this reason analogue low-pass filters are still required above 20kHz even with 192kHz DACs let alone 48kHz ones. I for one would not buy a DSP XO solution if it did not have built in DACs. For one thing, I'd have to buy another product just to make the first product workdmfraser said:
, and any possible benefits would probably be outweighed by problems introduced by having the DACs a large physical distance from the DSP.I would try to make the product affordable, otherwise you lose most of your potential market and start fighting for attention in the "audiophile" market. Hint: avoid the audiophile market at all costs: some of those people can hear differences where there are none and vice versa; and most of your budget will go down the drain on marketing and selling the product on appearance.
On my wish-list would be a DSP solution for 2 channels in, 6 or maybe even 7 channels out. The box would have some sort of minimal UI so a PC is not required, however it would also have connectivity to a PC for setting up initially, major adjustments and reprogramming....
I think there's a limit to how much the actual crossover slopes can benefit sound quality, and "linear-phase" crossovers are practically just a red herring - a good algorithm should handle that anyway. I would be much more interested in being able to calibrate my speakers with microphones, specifically to eliminate ringing effects in the time domain.
CM
It seems as though this thread (as with many others) is going in multiple directions. Nothing wrong with that - it promotes alot of good discussion and comments that probably benefit many folks - even if their needs/wishes are for drastically differing applications (but at least somewhat related). I guess we need to be more specific up-front as to what we're after. So here's my attempt:
I'm not looking to replace nicely designed, rack-mounted parametric EQs, graphic equalisers, or fancy digital crossovers. It seems that there are some great products out there right now (and as Dan points out - for $299 you just are NOT going to beat that with a DIY).
What I AM looking to do is to replace a passive crossover with a digital version that is low-cost, repeatable, doesn't require high-tolerance passive components, can be tweaked ad-naseum (without a soldering iron), and provides an alternative to very high component-count active crossover/equalizer solutions. Sort of a cheap "black-box" intended to be used in active speakers. Ideally, it's a 1-in (probably balanced) 3-out (single-ended since it will directly feed individual amps) widget that can be embedded in a speaker enclosure along with associated amps, PSU, etc.
Cheap is good for this! For example, if it were cheap enough, someone could construct a "Super-Dayton BR1" if they wanted to (okay, so this is an extreme example 🙂 ) which would allow them to tweak the response curves, etc. quite a bit and apply the outputs directly to (perhaps) some inexpensive "gain-clone" type amps to run the drivers. Expand this idea to include a sub and/or 3-way design with better drivers, more or less power, provision for adding in room-EQ, delay, etc., etc. - well I'm sure you get the idea. In other words, I'm not out to replace Behringers - I'm out to replace passive crossovers with something much more flexible that can be measured, modeled, locked-in and then stuffed into an enclosure. Seems like the TI or Analog Devices widgets might be just the thing. The problem, of course, would be to create a PACKAGE that an end-user could easily configure, tweak and test without having to become an expert on the use of the device at a low level (i.e. the equivalent of Assembly-Language) in order to satisfy a relatively problem (e.g. "How do I set up a simple xover at 1500Hz, attenuate a peak at 3500Hz by "X" amount, and add an LF boost of 6 dB beginning at 35Hz"?)........
Of course, it will never be this simple - but the parts exist already. So how do we use them?...............
🙄
Bill
I'm not looking to replace nicely designed, rack-mounted parametric EQs, graphic equalisers, or fancy digital crossovers. It seems that there are some great products out there right now (and as Dan points out - for $299 you just are NOT going to beat that with a DIY).
What I AM looking to do is to replace a passive crossover with a digital version that is low-cost, repeatable, doesn't require high-tolerance passive components, can be tweaked ad-naseum (without a soldering iron), and provides an alternative to very high component-count active crossover/equalizer solutions. Sort of a cheap "black-box" intended to be used in active speakers. Ideally, it's a 1-in (probably balanced) 3-out (single-ended since it will directly feed individual amps) widget that can be embedded in a speaker enclosure along with associated amps, PSU, etc.
Cheap is good for this! For example, if it were cheap enough, someone could construct a "Super-Dayton BR1" if they wanted to (okay, so this is an extreme example 🙂 ) which would allow them to tweak the response curves, etc. quite a bit and apply the outputs directly to (perhaps) some inexpensive "gain-clone" type amps to run the drivers. Expand this idea to include a sub and/or 3-way design with better drivers, more or less power, provision for adding in room-EQ, delay, etc., etc. - well I'm sure you get the idea. In other words, I'm not out to replace Behringers - I'm out to replace passive crossovers with something much more flexible that can be measured, modeled, locked-in and then stuffed into an enclosure. Seems like the TI or Analog Devices widgets might be just the thing. The problem, of course, would be to create a PACKAGE that an end-user could easily configure, tweak and test without having to become an expert on the use of the device at a low level (i.e. the equivalent of Assembly-Language) in order to satisfy a relatively problem (e.g. "How do I set up a simple xover at 1500Hz, attenuate a peak at 3500Hz by "X" amount, and add an LF boost of 6 dB beginning at 35Hz"?)........
Of course, it will never be this simple - but the parts exist already. So how do we use them?...............
🙄
Bill
Hi; Now thats what I'm looking for Netqeek. 1 in 3 or 4 out. No A-D or D-A converters needed for me, strictly I2S. A nice interface(rs232) into windows for programming the xovers, boost, cut etc and it should have a master level(volume) control that can used without the windows programming interface. Is this too much. Would be perfect, that way I wouldn't need to buy a Behringer and only use a faction of its circuitry.
Walter
Walter
As the perfect solution is still not available how about this:
An older EV DSP with freely configurable internal signal flow with gain, iir filter, crossover, mixer, delay, dither modules - married through i2s to a Panasonic digital amp board in box with battery supply.
Digital input with clock sync to transport. Analog inputs can be added as modules, but not in use now. The DSP has 8 output channels but I'm using only 5 for the 5*130W output.
PC configurable, but without the pc there are two buttons for volume up/down.
Total cost is ~$300.
A two box system (transport plus this box) for a fully digital multiamp chain.
An older EV DSP with freely configurable internal signal flow with gain, iir filter, crossover, mixer, delay, dither modules - married through i2s to a Panasonic digital amp board in box with battery supply.
Digital input with clock sync to transport. Analog inputs can be added as modules, but not in use now. The DSP has 8 output channels but I'm using only 5 for the 5*130W output.
PC configurable, but without the pc there are two buttons for volume up/down.
Total cost is ~$300.
A two box system (transport plus this box) for a fully digital multiamp chain.
Attachments
Commercial Equivalent?
Was looking are this year's CES exhibitor info...
Looks like there is a company that is introducing a product similar to what you've been discussing in this thread...
12s input, crossover, etc...
http://www.d2audio.com/products-proaudio.php?uniqueID=18
d2 audio amp
Was looking are this year's CES exhibitor info...
Looks like there is a company that is introducing a product similar to what you've been discussing in this thread...
12s input, crossover, etc...
http://www.d2audio.com/products-proaudio.php?uniqueID=18
d2 audio amp
Member
Joined 2002
D2Audio
D2Audio make a decent 4 channel power amp module, the XS-100 with a good built in DSP. (I was at their party at the Palms in Vegas last Friday night during CES) We are getting a version with FIR filters for making steerable column arrays. The unit does require a fully regulated power supply. The module with a good DSP and 4 x 125W of amplification has an OEM cost of $150.00 (this is the 500+ price I believe) and needs a $150.00 power supply. They said they would sell the eval board with the module and the power supply for $495.00. I don't know for sure because they loaned it to me.
However, the product sounds good and measures good and it is likely we will be buying it from them. They also make a 2 channel version with 375W and 125W and a 3 channel with 250W and 125W x 2. There is also an 8 chnnel coming out.
Overall, while their early products were not up to professional standards, their current products are well worth looking at.
D2Audio make a decent 4 channel power amp module, the XS-100 with a good built in DSP. (I was at their party at the Palms in Vegas last Friday night during CES) We are getting a version with FIR filters for making steerable column arrays. The unit does require a fully regulated power supply. The module with a good DSP and 4 x 125W of amplification has an OEM cost of $150.00 (this is the 500+ price I believe) and needs a $150.00 power supply. They said they would sell the eval board with the module and the power supply for $495.00. I don't know for sure because they loaned it to me.
However, the product sounds good and measures good and it is likely we will be buying it from them. They also make a 2 channel version with 375W and 125W and a 3 channel with 250W and 125W x 2. There is also an 8 chnnel coming out.
Overall, while their early products were not up to professional standards, their current products are well worth looking at.
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