Hey all, just noticed that magnepan and Apogee woofers panels are a bit different in their placement of conductor - Magnepan has conductor wire directly between the N-S magnets, while Apogee has centerline of the ribbon conductors directly over the edges of the N-S magnets.
I would guess that Apogee design not having the ribbon conductor centerline directly between the N-S magnets would compromise their performance, and make it non linear?
See pics...
I would guess that Apogee design not having the ribbon conductor centerline directly between the N-S magnets would compromise their performance, and make it non linear?
See pics...
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Apogee's were superior sounding in every way , they were sued by Magnapan for patent infringement and Magnapan won. Both setups with mags on one side would suffer from NL, (maggie) current , push pull setup is superior in regards to NL ....
Yes, I agree a Push-Pull would be ideal, but maggies and Apogees were more like Push-Don't Push? I was referring to having the conductor directly between the poles as opposed to a bit off to the side...
Anyway, Magnepan sued Apogee over the Diva True Ribbon Tweeter design, I don't think anything else was in question...
What would be lost/gained if instead of a ribbon on Apogee panel, you had an Aluminum wire like magnepan?
Anyway, Magnepan sued Apogee over the Diva True Ribbon Tweeter design, I don't think anything else was in question...
What would be lost/gained if instead of a ribbon on Apogee panel, you had an Aluminum wire like magnepan?
So was the Diva True Ribbon tweeter.....free hanging??... like all others Apogees..........YES!
Magnepans socaled true ribbon is tacket down evey 4"s....i hear an see a big diff. in the setups...but i gess foil is foil............
I have Maggy here an there a lot of fun...but there in that 75-80% at best to full ribbon or ESLs....but there not even close to the any Apogee............
Magnepans socaled true ribbon is tacket down evey 4"s....i hear an see a big diff. in the setups...but i gess foil is foil............
I have Maggy here an there a lot of fun...but there in that 75-80% at best to full ribbon or ESLs....but there not even close to the any Apogee............
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I wouldn't call it a true hanging ribbon, it is glued to a foam dampner about every foot and half or so.
I thought the new Maggies were push/pull ...?
Edit: nope i was not able to see if so from their website , IMO the apps had superior bass , with more drive with magnets behind, you will get more of a twisting motion the way maggie has them ...
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The 20 series are push-pull (have perforated sheets on both sides of the diaphragm), but the 3.x and 2.x and 1.x series are still all push - don't push.
Hey, I have been thinking about the Apogee Buzz and have a theory...
I think the buzz is from the speaker being over driven - look at this way - Kapton shrinks as it gets hot - I have read 8% in 15 minutes at 70C (155F). Now I have put my hands on ribbons and they can get pretty toasty - when the Aluminum gets hot it expands, while the Kaption shrinks, bowing the ribbon. Once cool, the aluminum returns back to normal, while the Kapton remains shrunk. This bowing appears as wrinkles that I think can cause the buzz more than the sides slapping on the blocks when the foam disintegrates.
What do you all think??
I think the buzz is from the speaker being over driven - look at this way - Kapton shrinks as it gets hot - I have read 8% in 15 minutes at 70C (155F). Now I have put my hands on ribbons and they can get pretty toasty - when the Aluminum gets hot it expands, while the Kaption shrinks, bowing the ribbon. Once cool, the aluminum returns back to normal, while the Kapton remains shrunk. This bowing appears as wrinkles that I think can cause the buzz more than the sides slapping on the blocks when the foam disintegrates.
What do you all think??
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Only midrange panels of high end magnepan are push pull. Not the bass! The amount of air that should pass the holes is to high any way or dampening to high. Maggie is using the resonance to extend low freq.
Hi John, Kapton can take temp tripling that easy, it's very stable, also the ali traces are a constant cooling mechanism, I doult you could get .002 elongation from it in either direction, just my theorys from working with it. Al
PS: Remember it's tuned, can't have that changing all the time.
PS: Remember it's tuned, can't have that changing all the time.
What are you talking about? Maggies have one-sided magnets ... except for the bass panels on the MG-20 and the bass & mid panels on the 20.1 & 20.7.
Regards,
Andy
Delta - here is what I have learned from watching the panels buzz...there are slight "bows" (bubbles?) in the diaphragm that you can see vibrate with more amplitude than a nice taught diaphragm that does not buzz.
Sagging or wrinkling diaphragms will surely have the buzz, and padding the edges with foam only helps a little. Tension-ing up the panel does little getting rid of a local "bubble", and trips up the tuning. Answer is getting those bubbles out...
Sagging or wrinkling diaphragms will surely have the buzz, and padding the edges with foam only helps a little. Tension-ing up the panel does little getting rid of a local "bubble", and trips up the tuning. Answer is getting those bubbles out...
I have found the......... feet on the biger Apogees....an the wate of the
magnets ...after time can setup a worp in the frame....i have got a lot of buzz OUT of the Duettas by moveing the front up or back up with the feet...............your Scintilla has only one back brace....not the two feet......
This is why i moved the last pr of Duetta sig out an keep the Stages..........the Stage dose not buzz vary ezzly.....out of 5 pr of Stages ..none have buzzed..there wate is only 60lb ea................Scintilla...160lb ea ...hell the Krell KSA250 with its
90lb tranfourmer...the amp140lb......An some say the 250 has great Bass wate.....hehe...i gess...
magnets ...after time can setup a worp in the frame....i have got a lot of buzz OUT of the Duettas by moveing the front up or back up with the feet...............your Scintilla has only one back brace....not the two feet......
This is why i moved the last pr of Duetta sig out an keep the Stages..........the Stage dose not buzz vary ezzly.....out of 5 pr of Stages ..none have buzzed..there wate is only 60lb ea................Scintilla...160lb ea ...hell the Krell KSA250 with its
90lb tranfourmer...the amp140lb......An some say the 250 has great Bass wate.....hehe...i gess...
Because of this flabbiness, I screwed metall bars in the back of my duettas.
3 bars screwed low, middle and high on the backsides onto the mdf board.
3 bars screwed low, middle and high on the backsides onto the mdf board.
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Another large difference between Apogees and Magnepans Rivvons are thr range intended to cover.for example
. The KLM5 Ribbons. Considered one of the very finest ever made. Crossed around 1k. Extremely gradual slope all the way into the very super low midrange.
While Magnepan. The midrange is from their Mylar panel. Same for bass. Their Ribbons are tweeters only. While Apogees free floating ribbons operate almost the entire range by themselves.
I adore Magnepan. But Magnepan is simply not in the same league. Just with their Ribbons. Apogee midrange operates from these corrugated fee floating ribbons have real, true dynamics. And swing. And visible exursion!
Just spectacular!
And the Push Pull panel does only the low frequencies only. It's just a different setup. And far more expensive. Just the magnets alone for a Single ribbon are absolutely gigantic!
I have never heared anything more "spooky real" than Apogee. It's uncanny.
. The KLM5 Ribbons. Considered one of the very finest ever made. Crossed around 1k. Extremely gradual slope all the way into the very super low midrange.
While Magnepan. The midrange is from their Mylar panel. Same for bass. Their Ribbons are tweeters only. While Apogees free floating ribbons operate almost the entire range by themselves.
I adore Magnepan. But Magnepan is simply not in the same league. Just with their Ribbons. Apogee midrange operates from these corrugated fee floating ribbons have real, true dynamics. And swing. And visible exursion!
Just spectacular!
And the Push Pull panel does only the low frequencies only. It's just a different setup. And far more expensive. Just the magnets alone for a Single ribbon are absolutely gigantic!
I have never heared anything more "spooky real" than Apogee. It's uncanny.