Topic says all. I have decided on the volume of the box but I don't know the volume that the driver takes up. Can anyone tell me?
Try this
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Peerless Data Sheet
315 SWR
315 SWR 39 134 PPX AL 4L 8 ohm - Order ID: 831857
The ultimative 12" subwoofer driver with an over-sized magnet (1.3 kg) and a heavy voice coil securing a clean, fast, and dry bass performance even at high volumes. Nothing is spared in this driver. Highly recommended for surround sound systems and THX systems.
315 SWR
Thiele Small parameters: Free air Common Baffled
Nominal impedance Zn (ohm) 8
Minimum impedance/at freq. Zmin (ohm/Hz) 6.3/124
Maximum impedance Zo (ohm) 46.9
DC resistance Re (ohm) 5.5
Voice coil inductance Le (mH) 2.8
Capacitor in series with 8 ohm
(for impedance compensation) Cc (µF) 24
Resonance Frequency fs (Hz) 24.0 22.9
Mechanical Q factor Qms 3.72 3.90
Electrical Q factor Qes 0.49 0.52
Total Q factor Qts 0.44 0.46
F (Ratio fs/Qts) F (Hz) 50
Mechanical resistance Rms (Kg/s) 3.25
Moving mass Mms (g) 80.2 88.2
Suspension compliance Cms (mm/N) 0.55
Effective cone diameter D (cm) 25.7
Effective piston area Sd (cm²) 520.0
Equivalent volume VAS (ltrs) 210.0
Force factor Bl (N/A) 11.6
Reference voltage sensitivity
Re 2.83V 1m at 124 Hz (Measured) (dB) 89.3
Magnet and voice coil parameters:
Voice coil diameter d (mm) 39
Voice coil length h (mm) 26.0
Voice coil layers n 4
Flux density in gap B (T) 0.99
Total useful flux (mWb) 1.52
Height of the gap hg (mm) 8
Diameter of magnet dm (mm) 134
Height of magnet hm (mm) 22
Weight of magnet (kg) 1.28
Power handling:
Long term Max System Power (IEC) (W) 220
Max linear SPL (rms) / by power (dB/W) 110/170
Measuring methods and conditions are stated in Peerless Standard for Acoustic Measurements (PSAM)
It is not exaxtly the same but PDC (pretty darn close)
I used alot of these little monsters a few years back. they are great.
Mark
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Peerless Data Sheet
315 SWR
315 SWR 39 134 PPX AL 4L 8 ohm - Order ID: 831857
The ultimative 12" subwoofer driver with an over-sized magnet (1.3 kg) and a heavy voice coil securing a clean, fast, and dry bass performance even at high volumes. Nothing is spared in this driver. Highly recommended for surround sound systems and THX systems.
315 SWR
Thiele Small parameters: Free air Common Baffled
Nominal impedance Zn (ohm) 8
Minimum impedance/at freq. Zmin (ohm/Hz) 6.3/124
Maximum impedance Zo (ohm) 46.9
DC resistance Re (ohm) 5.5
Voice coil inductance Le (mH) 2.8
Capacitor in series with 8 ohm
(for impedance compensation) Cc (µF) 24
Resonance Frequency fs (Hz) 24.0 22.9
Mechanical Q factor Qms 3.72 3.90
Electrical Q factor Qes 0.49 0.52
Total Q factor Qts 0.44 0.46
F (Ratio fs/Qts) F (Hz) 50
Mechanical resistance Rms (Kg/s) 3.25
Moving mass Mms (g) 80.2 88.2
Suspension compliance Cms (mm/N) 0.55
Effective cone diameter D (cm) 25.7
Effective piston area Sd (cm²) 520.0
Equivalent volume VAS (ltrs) 210.0
Force factor Bl (N/A) 11.6
Reference voltage sensitivity
Re 2.83V 1m at 124 Hz (Measured) (dB) 89.3
Magnet and voice coil parameters:
Voice coil diameter d (mm) 39
Voice coil length h (mm) 26.0
Voice coil layers n 4
Flux density in gap B (T) 0.99
Total useful flux (mWb) 1.52
Height of the gap hg (mm) 8
Diameter of magnet dm (mm) 134
Height of magnet hm (mm) 22
Weight of magnet (kg) 1.28
Power handling:
Long term Max System Power (IEC) (W) 220
Max linear SPL (rms) / by power (dB/W) 110/170
Measuring methods and conditions are stated in Peerless Standard for Acoustic Measurements (PSAM)
It is not exaxtly the same but PDC (pretty darn close)
I used alot of these little monsters a few years back. they are great.
Mark
Received some of these recently and did some T/S with my woofertester. ( on 2/6 pieces) So far the results are definitely off the published in my examples... and if so in yours might influence the design more than the volume you asked about.
Brian
Brian
Brian:
A) Did you break them in yet?
B) Peerless is known for coming with different numbers than what they advertise, yet giving performance very similar to the advertised Thiele-Small parameters when placed in a box. Do a simulation with your findings and see how close it comes to a speaker with the advertised numbers placed in the same box.
A) Did you break them in yet?
B) Peerless is known for coming with different numbers than what they advertise, yet giving performance very similar to the advertised Thiele-Small parameters when placed in a box. Do a simulation with your findings and see how close it comes to a speaker with the advertised numbers placed in the same box.
MFinal:
A) If you simulate a box volume on any number of programs, try varying the box volume by 10%. See how little difference it makes in F3, response curve, etc? Generally, if all your variables, such as bracing, driver volume, etc. add up to 10% or less or less of your projected box volume, you are in good shape. It is generally a negligible difference.
B) Which series is the 831858 from? WinISD data base says they are 8 inchers, but I can't find the series.
C) Whatever series they are from, I am sure that, for practical purposes, they take up the approximately the same amount as the 8" from the Peerless CSX series.
Let us figure an approximation for the volume this Peerless CSX 8 inch woofer takes up. Don't worry about the Metric-I'll convert to real measurements at the end.
The inner rim is 184 mm. The height from rim to back of magnet is 91 mm. Let's find the volume of a solid cylinder with those outside dimensions.
The area of a circle is : p r² = 3.14 X 92² = 26577 mm².
The volume of the cylinder = 26577 mm² X 91 mm = 2418503 mm³ = 2419 cm³ = 2.4 liters.
Okay, that is for a straight cylinder. Looking at any speaker, what percentage of that cylinder volume would you estimate is actually the cone, frame and magnet, as opposed to empty air? Less than half, for sure. So at the most, this speaker occupies 1.2 liters. Probably more like 1 liter.
There are 28.3 liters in a cubic foot. So you can safely say that about 1/28th of a cubic foot is occupied by this 8 inch speaker-certainly a negligible amount.
A 12 inch speaker would be more volume, but then a 12 inch speaker would likely be in a larger box, so the percentage of box volume would be the same.
About the only time you really need to take speaker volume into account is with some superheavyweights like the Stryke or the Tumult. Something like that. For speakers of normal size, going into reasonable box volumes for their size, it rarely matters.
A) If you simulate a box volume on any number of programs, try varying the box volume by 10%. See how little difference it makes in F3, response curve, etc? Generally, if all your variables, such as bracing, driver volume, etc. add up to 10% or less or less of your projected box volume, you are in good shape. It is generally a negligible difference.
B) Which series is the 831858 from? WinISD data base says they are 8 inchers, but I can't find the series.
C) Whatever series they are from, I am sure that, for practical purposes, they take up the approximately the same amount as the 8" from the Peerless CSX series.
Let us figure an approximation for the volume this Peerless CSX 8 inch woofer takes up. Don't worry about the Metric-I'll convert to real measurements at the end.
The inner rim is 184 mm. The height from rim to back of magnet is 91 mm. Let's find the volume of a solid cylinder with those outside dimensions.
The area of a circle is : p r² = 3.14 X 92² = 26577 mm².
The volume of the cylinder = 26577 mm² X 91 mm = 2418503 mm³ = 2419 cm³ = 2.4 liters.
Okay, that is for a straight cylinder. Looking at any speaker, what percentage of that cylinder volume would you estimate is actually the cone, frame and magnet, as opposed to empty air? Less than half, for sure. So at the most, this speaker occupies 1.2 liters. Probably more like 1 liter.
There are 28.3 liters in a cubic foot. So you can safely say that about 1/28th of a cubic foot is occupied by this 8 inch speaker-certainly a negligible amount.
A 12 inch speaker would be more volume, but then a 12 inch speaker would likely be in a larger box, so the percentage of box volume would be the same.
About the only time you really need to take speaker volume into account is with some superheavyweights like the Stryke or the Tumult. Something like that. For speakers of normal size, going into reasonable box volumes for their size, it rarely matters.
Driver displacement volume.
Hi,
The driver displacement volume is 1.11 liters for the 821858 which I checked and found to be a 220 mm dia driver. That's about 8 inches.
Hi,
The driver displacement volume is 1.11 liters for the 821858 which I checked and found to be a 220 mm dia driver. That's about 8 inches.
Thanks for the help guys. Anyone have this driver implemented as a subwoofer? I decided on the 20L/27Hz 6.36cm diameter port box per GM suggestion but I am having problem with the length fitting inside the box. This subwoofer design stuff is harder than I thought.
Duct
Hi mFH,
I checked the response in a 20 liter box tuned at 27 Hz. It is almost similar to the box tuned at about 30Hz and needs a duct length of about 470mm as compared to 605mm for 27 Hz. The duct can be made into an L using a 90 degree PVC elbow joint. So the duct will end up vertical inside the box.
Note that the calculations used 63mm as the INSIDE dia of the tube.If the 63 mm is the outside dia of the tube ( like we have here ) , the inside dia is about 58=mm or 59 mm.
In that case the duct for 27 Hz tuning is 527mm.
The response curve with individually driven coils in a vented box seem much better than the parallel coils though you do get a lift of about 1.5 db before the response drops od at LF.
This is a dual coil unit and behaves differently depending on how the coils are connected. The details given above are for coils in parallel.
Hi mFH,
I checked the response in a 20 liter box tuned at 27 Hz. It is almost similar to the box tuned at about 30Hz and needs a duct length of about 470mm as compared to 605mm for 27 Hz. The duct can be made into an L using a 90 degree PVC elbow joint. So the duct will end up vertical inside the box.
Note that the calculations used 63mm as the INSIDE dia of the tube.If the 63 mm is the outside dia of the tube ( like we have here ) , the inside dia is about 58=mm or 59 mm.
In that case the duct for 27 Hz tuning is 527mm.
The response curve with individually driven coils in a vented box seem much better than the parallel coils though you do get a lift of about 1.5 db before the response drops od at LF.
This is a dual coil unit and behaves differently depending on how the coils are connected. The details given above are for coils in parallel.
MFinal:
I cannot find the 831858 anywhere. The parameters are listed in WinISD, but I cannot find the driver otherwise.
Peerless has such things as the CSC series, the CSX series, the HDS series, etc. Your speaker is from none of those series, nor from any series I see currently listed. Which series is the 831858 from?
I cannot find the 831858 anywhere. The parameters are listed in WinISD, but I cannot find the driver otherwise.
Peerless has such things as the CSC series, the CSX series, the HDS series, etc. Your speaker is from none of those series, nor from any series I see currently listed. Which series is the 831858 from?
831858 specs
I have some specs for the 831858 which is a dual voice coil woofer.
Fs 23.4 Hz
Qms 3.66
Vas 69.6 liters
Cms 0.97
Mms 47.6
Rms 1.92
Effective dia 169 mm
Sd 25.5 sq cm
Bl 8.1
Pe 200 watts
Coil connection individual drive / parallel drive
Qes 0.43 / 0.25
Impedance 8 / 4 ohms
Inductance 0.7 / 1.4 mH
Qts 0.39 / 0.23
SPL 85.2 / 89.9 db per watt
Suggested enclosure closed / vented
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
I have some specs for the 831858 which is a dual voice coil woofer.
Fs 23.4 Hz
Qms 3.66
Vas 69.6 liters
Cms 0.97
Mms 47.6
Rms 1.92
Effective dia 169 mm
Sd 25.5 sq cm
Bl 8.1
Pe 200 watts
Coil connection individual drive / parallel drive
Qes 0.43 / 0.25
Impedance 8 / 4 ohms
Inductance 0.7 / 1.4 mH
Qts 0.39 / 0.23
SPL 85.2 / 89.9 db per watt
Suggested enclosure closed / vented
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Thanks, Ashok. That helps.
Incidentally, where did you get the info for the volume the driver takes up for your other 8 inch? Peerless does not seem to release that info, that is why I did the estimate in the other post.
Incidentally, where did you get the info for the volume the driver takes up for your other 8 inch? Peerless does not seem to release that info, that is why I did the estimate in the other post.
813858 volume
Hi KW,
I got the data from my Bass Box Pro program. The driver is listed there. The dimensions are also given there except for the thickness of the magnet which I assumed to be 40mm.
Cheers.
Ashok.
Hi KW,
I got the data from my Bass Box Pro program. The driver is listed there. The dimensions are also given there except for the thickness of the magnet which I assumed to be 40mm.
Cheers.
Ashok.
I went around town and no one seems to carry 2.5in pvc pipe. Is there any online speaker site that sell the diameter and lenth i need? What do you guys suggest?
Your answer might be the flared tube.
I have not used them, but it is generally recognized that a flared tube, of any diameter, produces as much noise as an unflared tube with twice it's cross sectional area. Not twice it's diameter-twice the cross section.
So a 2" flared tube produces the same noise as a 3" unflared, a 3" unflared diameter tube produces the same noise as 4 " unflared, etc.
So, even better than a 2½ tube would be a 2" flared tube.
Here is a link:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...&St3=92578293&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=124264&DID=7
The length of 2" port to tune a 20 liter box to 27 Hz is 14.66. Although the longest the tube is designed to go is 11 inches, I am sure you can cut and substitute 2" PVC pipe to bring the length up. You might also consider adding an elbow and extra 2" PVC pipe to lengthen the port appropriately. Who knows-maybe the elbow would come to 4" and you would be all set.
I have not used them, but it is generally recognized that a flared tube, of any diameter, produces as much noise as an unflared tube with twice it's cross sectional area. Not twice it's diameter-twice the cross section.
So a 2" flared tube produces the same noise as a 3" unflared, a 3" unflared diameter tube produces the same noise as 4 " unflared, etc.
So, even better than a 2½ tube would be a 2" flared tube.
Here is a link:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...&St3=92578293&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=124264&DID=7
The length of 2" port to tune a 20 liter box to 27 Hz is 14.66. Although the longest the tube is designed to go is 11 inches, I am sure you can cut and substitute 2" PVC pipe to bring the length up. You might also consider adding an elbow and extra 2" PVC pipe to lengthen the port appropriately. Who knows-maybe the elbow would come to 4" and you would be all set.
kelticwizard said:
He's talking about the 831857
Go to the Peerless site www.peerless.dk and then choose the classic series. It's the largest driver on that page (the 315 SWR)
I read a review of the driver in the latest isue of the german magazine "klang und thon". They liked it very much, but it needs a very large box. between 100 and 200 L.
In such a large box it went deeper than most other subwoofers in the test, include the XLS range.
If you have the room for it, it's one of the best cheap subwoofer drivers you can find.
DIY Peter:
At first, I thought he meant the 831857 as well, but my WinISD driver database tells me this is an 8 inch. As Ashok pointed out in post #10, this is a dual voice coil 8 inch woofer.
Since Peerless generally puts their speakers in series, I was wondering which series this was part of. I could not find it.
The 12" 831857 is a good value, and has been around a long time. The main thing about them, as you point out, is the large size of the box required for them.
PS: Aha! I just looked up Madisound. Apparently the 831858 was once part of the CCC line, but was dropped for some reason.
At first, I thought he meant the 831857 as well, but my WinISD driver database tells me this is an 8 inch. As Ashok pointed out in post #10, this is a dual voice coil 8 inch woofer.
Since Peerless generally puts their speakers in series, I was wondering which series this was part of. I could not find it.
The 12" 831857 is a good value, and has been around a long time. The main thing about them, as you point out, is the large size of the box required for them.
PS: Aha! I just looked up Madisound. Apparently the 831858 was once part of the CCC line, but was dropped for some reason.
Flush looks nicer.
Hi mFH,
IMO the wave lengths at LF are so long the edge should not have any effect on the response. Edge effects happen when the wavelengths are comparable to the dimensions of the edges.
But keeping the edge of the woofer flush makes it look nice.
If the baffle thickness is only 19mm you may have a problem as the recessed hole will reduce the thickness that is available to fix the speaker. You can use two sheets glued together for the front baffle.
Cheers.
Hi mFH,
IMO the wave lengths at LF are so long the edge should not have any effect on the response. Edge effects happen when the wavelengths are comparable to the dimensions of the edges.
But keeping the edge of the woofer flush makes it look nice.
If the baffle thickness is only 19mm you may have a problem as the recessed hole will reduce the thickness that is available to fix the speaker. You can use two sheets glued together for the front baffle.
Cheers.
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